I am a stay at home mum of 4 - three sons aged 6, 5 and 3, and a daughter aged 10 mths. I have supportive friends who helped identify my oldest son's giftedness as a preschooler, but am floundering as he gets older. He's started at ODS and thrives, and loves all learning, BUT...
*Is hugely demanding (interrupting, physically hanging off me and his dad, loud, always "me me me") always asking "what can i do now?"
*Is struggling to sleep - it can take 3 hours to fall asleep even with routine, stories, relaxing music, tart cherry juice and magnesium supplements!
*He fidgets non stop and is restless and almost hyperactive...
*He is "airy fairy" and impractical, seemingly forgetting how or when to do simple every day tasks eg where he left his shoes or when to pack his schoolbag...
* he gets obsessive about activities eg using the iPad or needing to do painting (and asks endlessly over and over for these)...
I adore all his amazing talents and quirks, but with his two brothers also showing clear signs of giftedness I am needing advice and strategies now for parenting this alert active amazing - but exhausting - boy. Please help! What can I read, or do, what diet might help, how can I get him to switch his brain off to sleep... Too much or not enough stimulation or activities?
Would really appreciate any thoughts.
Sounds very familiar. although I haven't found a magic bullet to help I can offer the strategies that are working for us, I will keep an eye on this for more as hopefully someone has ideas I can use too.
As much as I have been conscious of the over committed child ours needs constant stimilation and lacks the ability to self entertain unless there is a screen involved so we have enlisted friends and family. We also paid for some after school activities. He is learning some music and is participating in sport (took a while for him to realise you can play sport, not win, still have fun even if you are not great at it) he is busy after school but that seems to work for him. Keeping him busy keeps him occupied. I'm concious that self entertainment is a skill he has to learn but we haven't worked that through yet.
The sleep issue is one we struggled with for years, we took advise from psych and doctors, tried various relaxation activities and CDs, tried tart cherry, routines, homeopathic remedies etc. etc. After the latest upset at school and more insane sleepless nights (worse than the usual sleepless nights) I had had enough and saw a GP who is using melatonin with some of her patients. We started trialling it 3 weeks ago and it has been a revelation for us. He is asleep by 830 and sleeps through till 7. no side effects for us so far and a good improvement in hyperactivity in the evenings (speeds up when tired).
We removed artificial food colors from the food he eats. Jumpy shouty snatchy behavior improved after a couple of weeks. Not gone but manageable and noticible behavior changes, we really notice now when he goes to a party or friends house and has eaten the foods we removed. I was worried about how hard this would be to impiment but once I had a handle on it there was only 6 or so things we check for in the ingredient lists and if one product is out we can generally find a similar one that's OK instead.
Good luck, I hope you find some answers that work for you. I have been quite reluctant to do some of these things especially the melatonin but have to concede that they work for us.
Hi Mel,
I second Kim re the melatonin and reducing the colours and preservatives. We lived by the chemical maze shopping companion by Bill Statham for a year or so.
We are still quite strict but not so much as we have all gone gluten free, since the recent discovery that our middle daughter has Coeliac's disease. I have also read that is also a cause of being low in melatonin (and raised seratonin levels) from
http://www.betterbods.co.nz/serotonin.htm
http://www.drrodneyford.com/faq/symptoms.html
Also we have learnt that Gluten can also cause problems to people who aren't Coeliac as well, above is a link that talks about some of the symptoms. DD8's symptoms were ALL behavioural. Never a sore tummy.
We have taken all 3 of our girls to swimming (a sport that focusses on personal bests rather than winning) and as a sport to use up some of their excess energy...but sometimes it works negatively as miss 8's brain is full of stuff to talk about after an hour of swimming and thinking.
I have been blown away by the changes, much calmer/happier/less demanding/less anxious/ decreased volume and pitch in general talking/ no more tip toe walking...the list goes on, they are the things that spring to mind.
We had a few rough years with difficult periods with each of the girls and at times it became very stressful, having a good GP who listens to you as a Mum made the biggest difference as we DO truely know our children best.
I love this and find it helpful to put "demanding behaviour" into context so as not to inadvertently perceive a child in a way that may not be helpful to the child themselves ...... especially gifted children who tend to pick up more on our attitudes and perceptions even when we think we are keeping them to ourselves.
People with intelligence must use their intelligence, people with eyes must use their eyes, people with the capacity to love have the impulse to love and the need to love in order to feel healthy. Capacities clamor to be used, and cease in their clamor only when they are used sufficiently. That is to say, capacities are needs, and therefore are intrinsic values as well.
I will throw in the low sugar diet if you haven't tried it already. My nearly 5 year old is doing way better in the tantrum department since we have gone low sugar. I am not fanatical about it, but I don't buy biscuits or junky breakfast cereal etc and I have really noticed the difference in him. Especially after a birthday party when he is dosed up on lollies and cake - takes a few days for him to settle down again.
I love this.
So nice to have other people to talk to about this.
My nearly 5 year old daughter I now explain as intense. And as above when it is time to wind down she winds up - the time when others energys are down. We found low sugar good and keeping down the drops colourings. For sleep when times are really bad I do hypnosis/relaxation techniques but also use weleda relaxing drops.
I have learnt to recognize her down times (the 5 mins she takes to re energize) and take my 5 mins ready for the next onslaught.
Thank you so much everyone for your kind considered and quick responses - I was moved to tears more than once as the things you described are so very familiar to me! I am definitely going to make some changes as suggested and probably keep a diary to track my wee man's behaviour so i can spot changes.
I am reassured that despite making him tired (and therefore amped up!!) his extra curricular activities are in fact fine tuning and focusing many of his g&ts. In particular he adores his new piano lessons, and has the most beautiful way of describing how they make him feel... "my fingers are dancing!" he also has an enormous sense of pride in his achievements which is helping his
Confidence and teamwork abilities (previously lacking in group situations).
Now just to switch off that brain at night somewhat when I read a meditation to him - so he doesn't stop me every 60 seconds to philosophise and theorize about the meaning of it! Tee hee.
Thanks to you all.
Mel
Thank you so much everyone for your kind considered and quick responses - I was moved to tears more than once as the things you described are so very familiar to me! I am definitely going to make some changes as suggested and probably keep a diary to track my wee man's behaviour so i can spot changes.
I am reassured that despite making him tired (and therefore amped up!!) his extra curricular activities are in fact fine tuning and focusing many of his g&ts. In particular he adores his new piano lessons, and has the most beautiful way of describing how they make him feel... "my fingers are dancing!" he also has an enormous sense of pride in his achievements which is helping his
Confidence and teamwork abilities (previously lacking in group situations).
Now just to switch off that brain at night somewhat when I read a meditation to him - so he doesn't stop me every 60 seconds to philosophise and theorize about the meaning of it! Tee hee.
Thanks to you all.
Mel
I found it helpful to make a list with my son of all the things he could do without me and one of those things that needed just a little help. When you get the 'What can I do now?' you just refer him to the list --this presumes he can read, if not, perhaps a pictorial list.
I used to challenge my son to pretend to be asleep and see if he could fool me. Check back in 5 or 10 minutes and you know he's awake pretending but after another 5 it's all over.
My son was reading very young so it was pretty easy to let him fall asleep with a book and after a few years of strict 'lights out' treatment he has accepted that bedtime is non-negotiable.
HTH -there is light at the end of the tunnel!!
PS. I wouldn't tolerate the 'hanging off you' -telling him he's a schoolboy now and to cut it out. (JMHO)
Well we have now had 3 nights on melatonin and... He is a very different child! Takes himself off to bed, snuggles down, lights off, Roald Dahl cd on and asleep in 30minutes. Up bright chirpy and animated in the morning and far less fidgety. And LOVED our visit to Explorers' open day this weekend. One very happy camper and one very relieved mum.
Thanks again everyone for the advice - salvation indeed!
X Mel
Hi All
I have a daughter, nearly 8, we have always had trouble with her sleeping, but at the moment it is worse and causing her (and us) some stress. It is the getting to sleep bit, she can take hours to get to sleep and can't bear to be left alone. So, I was reading about melatonin. Can GPs Prescribe it? Is it safe and effective? We need to try something, as she is now consistently still awake at 10.30pm and is showing signs of being irritable at times. She doesn't usually wake till about 7.30pm, but I don't think thats enough sleep for her age.
I had the same concerns about safety but was reassured by GP and offered referral to pediatrician if I wanted although she was happy to prescribe it to me for our son. It has been effective for him, worked from the first night. I wish I'd done it earlier. It isn't subsideised though so our prescription for 3 months was $17 on top of GP cost. It's available off prescription (over the counter) in Australia.
Good luck
Hi mum of three
From my recent experience - yes melatonin is prescription only in nz and is a synthetic form of what your body produces naturally. My GP was excellent in explaining it to me and my son (age 6) basically telling him it is a "medicine" which his body makes naturally to help him sleep but right now his body needs some extra help. She did not hesitate to prescribe it when i explained we had been battling his getting-to-sleep troubles for months (up and anxious till 10pm and like your daughter, not wanting to be left alone.) Yes it costs because it's not subsidized but actually works out cheaper than the many many natural and homeopathic things we had already tried, which were not working! And like Kim, we SO wished we had done it sooner.
Definitely worth a try. My husband and I have our evenings and our spare time back and our son is SO much happier.
Hi, yes we have a son who had the same problems so didn't cope much at school, even falling asleep sometimes. He was also very irritable by the end of the day.
On recommendation from a friend we put him on Melatonin even with Paediatrician saying he didn't think it would work. I remember the first 3 or so nights. He kept saying he loved the 'sleepy' feeling that he was having. On discussion he had never felt this in his life! He was 7 then and is now 10. We are still using it.
I believe that Cherry juice has the same effect but have yet to source it. I think that their minds just never stop thinking(he was also very anxious alot) so they can't quiet their minds enough to settle to sleep.
We did also try a myriad of other things and have always had regular sleep routines, relaxation music, no tv/scary movies etc to no effect.
Great to hear all these responses. We too have an eight year old who struggles and always has done, to get sleep. After reading these posts I think we will be going to see the GP and try the Melatonin!
We have tried Cherryvite in the past, and it is available online if you live in NZ.
She didn't like the taste too much at the time (we got the juice), but from memory you can buy tablets as well. Number two who liked the taste has never had a problem getting to sleep so hard to know if it worked for her, although hubbie tried it and he thinks it worked for him.
My question would be, having been through this myself, why aren't these kids producing enough of their own melatonin. There has to be a reason. Giving melatonin is better than doing nothing and I agree it can be a wonderful relief but it won't be getting to the crux of the problem if people don't find out why the body isn't making enough. There is a fantastic biomedical pediatrician in Auckland who does distance consults. Her name is Leila Mason. She would be the most knowledgeable in this area in my opinion, much more so than Rodney Ford and we've seen both. Too many vegetable oils and their accompanying trans fats and not enough saturated fat can hinder the body from making it's own melatonin. Mineral and vitamin deficiencies are another thing. Routine blood tests don't necessarily pick all of these up. I suffered from crippling insomnia for years until I discovered the coenzyme form of Vit b6 called P-5-P. I'd tried melatonin and it helped somewhat but is not recommended for breastfeeding. P-5-P changed my life :) I've also had kids with sleep issues because of food intolerances. I'm not sure of the cost of melatonin here at the mo but you folks could try iHerb.com and see if it is cheaper. I find it cheaper to buy almost everything from them even including the $12 DHL postage. There is a genetic disorder called pyrolle disorder that most GP's have never heard of. It can be accompanied by anxiety, perfectionism, emotional sensitivity, easily affected by stress, hyperactivity, lots of meltdowns/tantrums, general over sensitive and/or difficult behavior. And low and behold sleep problems especially lack of dream recall. We have it in our family and treating it has made a huge difference.
Hi Kate
I read that anxiety can be something that decreases natural levels of melatonin, and since anxious kids are often the ones that have the minds constantly on the go, that can't settle to sleep, that may be the connection. There are so many psychological factors that affect our physical functioning.
Also tart cherry juice sold as a natural sleep remedy is apparently a source of natural melatonin (although its from a plant so I'm guessing it might not be exactly the same as the human form). I think that juice is considered ok for pregnant women and breastfeeding mums, although the amount of melatonin is lower than the melatonin you get on prescription which is a synthetic form. I am thinking I will take my daughter to the GP and see what he thinks.
Hi! I've just discovered this forum, and a discussion about Melatonin! Lovely!
For the record, our melatonin experience: oldest daughter (gifted, highly sensitive etc etc) still hadn't slept through the night at 9 yrs old. At that stage I stumbled across another parent who had managed to get a Melatonin prescription - I'd been trying for years as I suspected there was a deficiency or something 'wrong' - just gut instinct. Needless to say I went to this particular dr and got a 1mg prescription. We went from 2 - 3 hours to fall asleep each night (plus waking in the night), to falling asleep within 5 - 10 minutes after 2 nights on only 1mg Melatonin. I couldn't believe the difference in sleep patterns. We'd tried all the usual other drug-free options, routine etc. We'd even tried a placebo effect with low-dose magnesium tablets, which hadn't worked. It didn't solve daytime coping and behaviour issues totally but it did help. Unfortunately puberty has kicked in now, as I suspected the sleep patterns are becoming quite disrupted again. Melatonin still takes the edge off but it isn't a total solution. It's not cheap, and can only be obtained by prescription. There is another over-the-counter product that is a Seratonin one, called REM Sleep. My husband (who also has major sleep issues) finds this a help, but again not a total solution. He's also found a slight benefit from a multi b-vitamin, but still sleep is an issue. I'm really interested to read about pyrolle disorder in your posting Kate - that sounds so like our family. I'm going to find out more. I've never heard of it before. What treatment do you use for that?
