My daughter is nearly 7 and recently we have been having a lot of trouble with extreme anger, violence and temper tantrums. We have gone through these phases in the past, most often in pre-school/school holidays. She has two younger siblings and another on the way!
Our daughter is definately bright she is reading at the age of a 9.5 year old. Has talked fluently since she was tiny. When she was a preschooler people used to stop me in the street and comment on how articulate she was.
When she was two we were discussing past queens of England and she asked me "what happens when you die?". I distinctly remember that at two and half she picked a patch of red paint off the wall in her bedroom to uncover the white paint underneath, when I found her she said "look mummy I've made Russia", sure enough she had done a pretty good job for a 2 year old (I had to look at a map myself to confirm it). These are things among many, many others, that indicated to me she was different. We have always struggled with her behaviourally, but have usually managed to get through it. But recently it has become overwhelming. Screaming, hitting, tantrums for just being given a type of bread she didn't like for breakfast.
We have wondered if she was gifted, but since she has been at school things have been rather unremarkable in terms of "achievement". She was placed with one other year 2 child in a class of year 3 students this year and she tracking at the top of year 3 kids. At school she can, as her teacher puts it "give a bit of attitude" about the more boring aspects of school like handwriting, but is mostly engaged.
I have avoided finding out about giftedness for fear of being wrong and looking like an idiot, or for fear of seeming overly keen on my child being "special".
Right now I don't care if there is a label or not I just need help to know what to do. How do I find out if "gifted" applies to our daughter? Does it cost a lot to have an assessment done?
Sorry for the long winded message, verbosity tends to run in the family!
Re: Help please is my child gifted, or bright and difficult?
Author: Linda
Date: 05-09-11 22:40
Definately sounds like ticking most boxes for gifted.
Formal assessment confirms and gives strategies for moving forward (coping, lol). List of ed psychologists on the main page of this website. Cost is high but many find the results to be worth it.
If cost is a problem there is no harm in presuming she is (parents are usually right with this) and reading all the books/websites that provide helpful advice on coping/managing/parenting a gifted child.
Reading around this forum will help you find the info you need. Bear in mind that people often post when they need help so don't presume it is all heartache and difficulty with giftedness.
HTH
Hi Hannah,
I've had the same issues with my gifted daughter who is now 8. She completely loses it when she doesn't get what she wants, storms off, can be aggressive and gives us (her parents) a lot of attitude. On the flip side, she also gets extremely anxious about school, tornadoes etc. I have to manage her bad behaviour with a very firm hand - every transgression gets loss of privilege (computer time, TV time, reading time at bedtime) or 5 minutes hall time (that doesn't work so well now...). But also reward good behaviour. I think the behaviour is getting better the older she gets (something to look forward to?).
Outside school interests also help I think - we do swimming and gym, and she is dying to do dancing (all these things can be used in negotiation for better behaviour!) and I am about to put her into One day school to cool off the atttitude at school. Good luck - you're not alone!
Re: Help please is my child gifted, or bright and difficult?
Author: country girl
Date: 14-09-11 10:50
I think we have all been through the worry about being seen as pushy if we even mention the "gifted" word. I had my daughter tested by the One Day School psychologist and I think it cost about $250.00 (our school paid for it too, even better). When he finished by saying she would be a very good candidate for ODS I just sat there afraid to ask "Is she gifted then?"
I look back at photos of the things she was doing as a toddler and are shocked it wasn't completely obvious so I would agree with Linda and if you can't get her tested why not presume she is gifted and work from there. You don't have to tell people, just read up on everything you can find and see what you can implement (at home after school hours if that is the only option).
My daughter needs a lot of 1 on 1 time. My coping strategy has been - the more annoying she is, the more time I spend with her and it seems to work (when really I want to send her to her room and have some peace and quiet).
I don't know if it is a coincidence but she started Year 9 this year and it is really hard work (she is 2 years accelerated) and she has become so much nicer. Some days she doesn't even freak out if there is the wrong bread in the cupboard (yep, most of our arguments are over food not being the same as it usually is).
Another shocking morning! I lost it a bit today, I feel like my behaviour is becoming just as bad as my daughter's!
I had a meeting with the teacher the other day and my daughter is out right refusing to do things which she considers "boring". She was sent to another class, threatened with the principal's office and staying in at lunch time until she finished her handwriting task.
The real problem for me is that I knew my daughter's teacher socially before she became her teacher. This makes advocating for my child's needs very difficult. I feel like my daughter is bored, under-stimulated and has nothing to look forward to in the day, but it's very hard to say these things without the teacher feeling criticized.
I'm not sure if any of this is really a question. I just needed to get it out. Thanks to all of you for your words of advice and support, it's nice to not feel so alone.
Can you bring in a professional, like a Ed Psych or OT as an objective contributor to your discussions with the teacher? That may take the social pressure off slightly. Rough situation for you both!
You do know your daughter may be avoiding writing rather than being bored with it. May be worth an OT assessment. Made a HUGE difference in my boy's life. He used to get in trouble so he was sent to the principal office every day at Writing time! Took the teacher far too long to cotton on to that one.
Hi Hannah,
Have you had your daughter tested yet? That piece of paper may or may not help with the teacher/principal, but it is certainly somewhere to start, at least to prove that she is a different learner to other kids. I don't know where you are in the country, but this website has contacts for psychological assessments. It can be expensive, but I think it is worth the cost, to have some back up to what you are saying, and as a way forward for you and your daughter.
Keep your chin up, she is special!
i'd be really interested in hearing if hannah has had her schooling problems sorted. we are suffering from a very similar situation. i hope all is good hannah. i bet your daughter is a clever girl.
Thanks for your enquiry Leah. So far this school year is going much better than last year, however home is still a battle field.
Our daughter was assessed for the gifted kids program and started that this year. She has only had three days so far, but it just adds something for her to look forward to in the week. She has also been placed in an extension maths class which she feels a little intimated by being put with kids two or three years older than her, but at least it feels like the school is trying.
She also has a new class teacher who has a much more laid-back and fun approach, which so far seems to be working well for her. She is definitely happier to go off to school every morning. It is a problem when there is a reliever... she still refuses to do "boring sports".
At home however things are either the same or worse, I can hardly recall what was going on last time I wrote.
Everything is a battle. Our daughter is angry a significant portion of the time she spends with her family. She hits, kicks, screams, slams doors, attempts to smash windows, rips curtains. Usually it starts as a simple request to put on her shoes etc.
The other day was one of my lowest yet. I picked the kids up from school, but needed to take a 5 min walk to the post-shop. The daughter in question hates shops! I warned her that we would need to go to the post shop after school and that she would need to make good choices about her attitude. First she refused to leave school, so I started walking with the other two out of the school gate. So to spite me, she came up behind me and lifted my skirt for all to see my underwear. I am heavily pregnant and more than a little body conscious at the moment! I was mortified. I told her how upset I was (while trying to remain calm in the middle of the street) so she hit me. I was so enraged with her cruelty to embarrass me in public like that. When I got home I locked myself in the bathroom and cried and cried. I was so angry. Normally she makes bad choices (hits, screams and is violent) when she feels "out of control" but this was a calculated decision to punish me for making her do something "boring".
Yesterday she pushed and hit her 2 year old sister. When I was cuddling her that night talking over with her her highlight and lowlight of the day she told me what she had done (she had been with my mum at the time) I asked her if she was sorry. Normally, with enough time she feels a great deal of remorse, sometimes overwhelming self loathing for her violent actions. That night she said "no I don't feel sorry, my sister was annoying me". This just made me so so disappointed and sad.
So, I feel like we are in a good space for the moment, when it comes to the school side of things, but I am due to have baby number 4 in 4 weeks and I just don't know how on earth I am going to cope with her at home.
My other two kids are mimicking her bad behaviour. The is a lot of yelling in our house. My husband are so worn down that it is not only the kids who raise their voices. I am so often ashamed of myself for my own bad reactions. Our home often feels like a war zone. You never know when I bomb is going to go off.
All our kids are amazing and I love them all deeply. I just need help to know what to do next, because things can't keep going on like this. I have a plan to see our GP and ask for some kind of psychological referral for our daughter. I am told that if you are referred then its free. I am also told not to get my hopes up as government services usually cater to the lowest common denominator if you know what I mean.
Thanks to anyone who reads this. Sometimes it feels a little better when you have typed out your thoughts.
After spending many months wondering, researching, questioning, worrying, stressing and despairing!!! I have finally come accross alot of information surrounding giftedness - including your wonderful posts which I have found very informative and comforting!!!
We are parents of an 8mth old boy and I have so many questions frustrations and to be honest at times we starting to realy struggle to cope day to day with all the uncertainty - but now having stumbled accross all this wonderful info I am feeling hopeful again!
Our son is only 8mths old but after reading so much about giftedness I am finding many similar giftedness signs and frustrations with our son! I could list of many possible signs but I don't want to bore you all! ;-) Although, many lists I have read from parents on here I have found very interesting and helpful!
What I would love to know is - now looking back as parents of gifted children, what signs did your baby show of giftedness? In addition, what would you do differently as a parent of a gifted baby? "Country girl" you mention that now looking back at your toddler it was obvious they were gifted? I would love to hear from you all.
Hi, we are still at the toddler stage, but I had a nurse come and help me for four weeks at the beginning and our girl was tracking by 2 weeks, and she told us she was going to be really smart. 4 months clapping to the beat, interaction was really early. Heaps of trouble with sleep, we had to take everything out of her room, feeding herself early. Combat crawling by 5 months as could not wait. Could get what she wanted easily, drawing I think 5 months. But I feel for you, I really struggled, especially at developmental growths, I just did not know what to do, I found a good book, I think it was called learning to move, which really helped out when she was 6 months. They are different from the other kids. Get bored of peers, don't get the social structure that comes with cliques. play centre filled the gap until 2.5 then again I really struggled as they would not help us and kindly was full. Writing by 2 spelling 2.5, we are a bit slower with reading. She is really intense, I found her full on as she wanted the interaction with older kids so I was the substitute. What would I do differently. I would relax! It all comes right. Get support. If you find it really intense, do swaps with friends as you will need a break. Don't talk to your friends about it too much, use the word "smart", we are here and we are really good listeners, even if it is to say I am having a really crappy day! The computer and tv is not your enemy- I got told once it was child abuse that m watched the little einsteins each day, I now know it was rubbish and give thm a gifted kid and see how they get through the day! You are not always going to get it right, but it will become right. Talk to preschool openly, not guns a blazing, as it is good practice for the future. Don't push too hard, life is going to get serious really soon. Hope this helps and I am sure you are going to get heaps of replies.
Re: Help please is my child gifted, or bright and difficult?
Author: country girl
Date: 27-02-12 12:39
@Leah13 - my baby is 13 years old now so my memory is bit fuzzy, so looking at photos of her as a baby and toddler is sometimes the only way of reminding me of things she was doing that might have been considered different from the norm (only child so no one to compare her with). One strange thing when she was only a few weeks old is she used to verbalise the same word every time my sister visited - never used it at other times. She didn't talk in sentences early but never babbled - only spoke correct words. I remember when she was about 18 months we went to a music/dance class and the tutor said she had never seen a child understand what was expected of her so soon (just basic twinkle, twinkle little star stuff). She was crazy about playing chess from about 18 months old - loved the concept of everyone trying to capture her king. Often the king and queen just danced :-) She drew really well early on, drew a picture of our dog on the blackboard around 2 years old complete with whiskers and eyebrows and then wrote his name above it. Obsessed with puzzles from early on, never tore a page in a book so could be trusted with paper books from a young age. Counted everything - holes in crumpets etc. Saw patterns in everything - chippies that looked like boats, trees that looked like monsters etc. Still does this.
Stopped day sleeps well before other children the same age which made for some long, long days.
I wouldn't have done anything physically different but I would have ignored all the people who said she was too young to do things and worried a lot less and just enjoyed her for who she was. One of the best things we did was correspondence pre-school, we had the most amazing 2 years together doing fun stuff before she went to school - would definately do that again
Both my children are assessed as gifted, however they are both completely different and always have been. My daughter was speaking in sentences at 13mths and was always extremely mature in her outlook and relationships. By 3 she would lose herself in a shop on purpose to hear her name called over the loudspeaker and make new friends (with the adults working there). Luckily most adults loved her as she talked to them so maturely and they thought it was cute! As a baby she was a rotten sleeper - even when driving in the car she didn't sleep and so we would have an hour of screaming every night before she'd finally succumb simply because she was so over-tired. I just wish I'd realised that at the time! She gave up her day sleeps by 13mths - I tried to continue but an hour of screaming for 50mins of nap-time just didn't add up. By about 8 months she would pull books off her shelf and very carefully go through them, turned each page carefully and spending a lot of time looking at them. She is dyslexic and took a long time to learn to read - however she was always interested in books. By 6 weeks she would sit in front of Hi-5 and watch it intently. Nothing else on tv interested her (and it's not like I'd have the tv going anyway!), but as soon as she heard the hi-5 song her legs would kick and she'd start 'talking'.
Son on the other hand was a dream sleeper - slept first whole night through at 6 weeks and was regularly sleeping through the whole night by 10 months - after my daughter that was amazing! He continued his naps until he was 4 yrs. Son needed speech therapy at 3 1/2 as he was so difficult to understand. Also needed to check his hearing several times as he has always seemed to have a hard time hearing. Now (at almost 10) we know that he hears background noise louder than speaking.
The trouble with his speech was that he was trying to say very difficult words that his little tongue had a hard time getting around! He pushed us to teach him to read at 4 and I resisted after the tough time we'd had with his sister. He was only in school for 6 months and went up about 13 reading levels in that time.
Both have phenomenal memories and that stood out when they were little.
My 3, now 12,11,5 were way ahead at all well child assessments. Many other parents comments are not helpful. I applied the "in one ear out the other" method and smile whenever others say things like " oh he can read". These children are intense. Get breaks. Show them how you relax. Have FUN.
Thanks so very much for taking the time in your hectic schedules to post your wonderful replies! We have been able to relate to almost everything you have all talked about - there are definitely common themes, which for us is a relief!
Thanks for the book recommendation "Anon" I think we have managed to find the book you mean so we will be ordering that.
Do you guys have any other recommendations of activities or strategies or anything else that we can use to keep our little guy occupied/challenged/happy/non frustrated and so on!!!??? We feel if we can sort out what we are doing with him during the day (by giving him the correct stimulation ect) then we may be able to sort one of our main issues which is us all getting some much needed sleep!
The other difficulty for us is that we have just moved to live in Hong Kong 2mths ago so we are not able to physically attend any support groups, playgroups with similar children ect in NZ. We are wondering which type of professional (if any exist for an 8mth old) that we could go and see to disscuss what is going on with our son and to come up with strategies - many posts recommend getting formal help and support???
Hi
Our now 10yr old HG (highly gifted) DS would trash his room when put to bed - we would go in to find him totally covered in books.. with every toy in his room out and played with. He would sleep very little. He wrote his name with wooden blocks at 2 on his bedside table - we went in to his room and each thought the other had done it... but we hadn't ... ha ha ha ... he was obsessed with puzzles and maths as a toddler/pre schooler. I cant really remember what was different as an infant as he was our first .. so we had nothing to compare to ! Good luck! .. and follow your instincts ! They are usually right !
Lou x
Re: Help please is my child gifted, or bright and difficult?
Author: Rachelle
Date: 29-02-12 20:39
Oh Hannah I am glad I am not the only one in this situation! My almost 8yr old was tested to be gifted at 99.9 in many areas (top 2%) He seems pretty normal to me (but he is in Montessori so they work at thier own pace). My daughter is almost 6 and is getting worse by the month, telling her teacher she hates her, won't do any work unless she has total control over the situation. At home she screams and hits if she things are not to the way she wants i (she was much better at 3 and 4 and would talk about what she requires) takes off out the front gate and I have to chase her. On the up side she is an avid reader three years above her age and very creative, I was not sure if she too was gifted but after reading some of these forums I think I will get her tested so I know where I stand and how to best cope, as we found it very helpful for our son.
Also does anyone have a child with extreem fears (she won't go to te papa because of the dead animals) she screams and shakes with fear!
Favourite is Starfall - free and the upgraded version is very cheap.
Time4learning - the front screen was really good as M had control over it, then when we did the school stuff, she hated it as it was sooo repetitive, but we printed all the worksheets which were a god send.
enchanted learning has heaps of free worksheets, activities and crafts for any age
Dinosaurs seem to be a real hit with the young ones, get a bulk bin off of trademe and learn the names, kids love learning to say the names as they are soo long and then spelling them.
If I wasn't working I would have done correspondence preschool or alpha preschool and join the homeschooling sites.
Mental spurts/milestones sometimes seem stressful, as ours are much bigger than others to deal with and so little one and we have to adjust to it and we don't really have the support of those around us as they haven't really gone through it. But they don't last forever and it is just getting into a new routine, finding stimulating things and I think as above RELAX - which I am still learning to do.
And I think we can say we are not perfect and we have had to work our way through it, but we have made it through so there is light at the end of the tunnel and the great thing is we have these little wonderful joys to work with and learn from, as I am always learning from M. She is a really good teacher!
Wow, i have just come across this website and after picking and choosing which title to click on, yours sounds very familiar! How are you doing now? How's your daughter doing at home?
My son is 6 and has been at school since May last year. He was put up a year to year 2 so he's in a class of slightly older children and is top of the class... well would be if he did as he was told. The problem is I think he finds it too easy and doesn't think he should have to do the work... especially the writing. He has always been extrememly difficult. Time out never worked as he would always get off and run away no matter how many times you would put him back. He has always run away from me especially when we were out. He has given me many heart attacks (not litterally). At kindy he would never sit on the mat at mat time, he would hide at tidy up time... once they nearly called the police because he hid in the storage cupboard and they thought he'd jumped the fence! There is something about his emotions that I can't quite figure out, he doesn't really like to show emotion. He gets embarrassed if he's scared about something and he doesn't like to show that he's crying. He's very defiant but extremely intelligent. Because of his behavior at school (lately he's been hitting and punching and scaring kids) the teachers are actually being really great and are already testing him to see if he's "gifted". He has a great memory and I am amazed at how smart he is. He throws massive tantrums when he doesn't get his way. He tells me he hates me when he is angry at me for something, he also calls me an idiot or whoever is getting in the way of him doing what he wants. He screams at the top of his lungs in anger, he punches or hits his 4 year old brother every time he annoys him, but he knows it's wrong. He also has a 1 year old brother who he adores and never seems to do anything mean to him... i guess i'm just hoping you or someone may have some ideas for me about what to do about his anger and is there anything we can do for him to show him how to control it. he gets lost in the moment and just loses it. Nothing we do seems to work because he never seems to care about consequenses or rewards. What happened today is what made me search the net... i was called into the office because for the third time this week my son had hit someone. he was playing tag and he pushed a couple of kids, then when he knew he was in trouble he ran away from the duty teacher and hid. When she went to get him out he punched her on the hand. i have been crying all afternoon cos i just don't know what to do anymore! Also, like you said it does feel really good to vent! so sorry that this is so long!!!!!!!
Re: Help please is my child gifted, or bright and difficult?
Author: Jo
Date: 28-05-12 21:48
Hi Rachel. I don't think I have much to offer, but I didn't want to read and not reply.
I don't know where you are living, but CAHMS is a reasonable place to start for some practical help. I have been working with a social worker there to try to sort out some issues with my 4 year old son. Some of the things you describe are similar to what we have here - the yelling, tantrums etc - even the favored sibling! Lucky for us we don't have any violent acts (touch wood!!) but I am sure that would be the hardest part to deal with.
So far CAHMS have spoken to me a few times for developmental history and have seen my son once and done a kindy observation. We are scheduled for cognitive testing in a few weeks to assess if he is gifted or not.
Jigsaw is another organization that deals with behavior issues and can help them to learn better ways to deal with frustration/anger etc. I am not sure if they are nationwide or just in my area though.
Re: Help please is my child gifted, or bright and difficult?
Author: Mumof2
Date: 29-05-12 20:04
Hi Rachel,
I lived your life for many years. My son is now 12 and has matured beyond the intense behaviour, and most of the self awareness was done with the help of the most amazing counsellor (Gifted, ADD & Aspergers himself), but we didn't get it under control early and ended up working with the special behaviour unit of the Ministry of Education and CAMHS, neither agency really did any good (between the ages of 8 and 10). In fact, the Min of Ed wanted to send our son to one of those special behaviour schools in Auckland. Sometimes things were so bad we wavered and wondered if that would be the thing to do, but our gut feeling was always that he would grow beyond the behaviour and he has!
If you are in the Bay of Plenty I can give you his name!
Hi, I have a 10 year old who is HG 2E and after 3 primary schools and many intense aggressive years I decided to take him out of school and homeeducate him. Anxiety was ruling his life. He has seen at least 2 counsellors, ICAMS, Paediatricians and finally after a very explosive day when people got hurt and police were called we finally got the diagnosis we needed. I had known since he was 2 that he was intelligent and had 'autistic traits' Finally due to this incident (I said we have to look at the 'whole' picture) he was tested by psycologists in a 'pre' clinic. It took 2 hours for them to finally say what I had been saying all along that he was Aspergiers and very intelligent to boot with some learning disabilities! I had been requesting that test for 6 years.
What I wanted to say to you is that after 12 months at home I still have a very serious intense intelligent little boy but I can definately see signs of him maturing and becoming calmer and way less anxious. I see signs of my happy boy back. We are moving to Tauranga next year and I would be keen to learn the name of this counsellor as we need to make decisions about schooling/homeeducating for the future and supporting our beautiful boy.
I have not been here in a while and it seems a lot has happened. I am not really doing a whole lot better in many areas, our daughter continues to sleep poorly, act violently and relate intensely. Just the other day she attacked pretty much everyone in the family and totally trashed her room.
However, we have gone to CAHMS and I have had baby number 4. While talking with various professionals at CAMHS I was also referred to maternal mental health for depression.
Anyway, in all of these discussions with professionals so far, I am learning something that is good. That is the number one thing you can do for your child who is acting out badly is to work on staying calm yourself. In many respects the techniques don't matter too much in and of themselves. It's how you do them that matters. I struggle with my own anger a lot. However, after the other days drama complete with room trashing drawn on walls etc I managed to stay calm and in the end out daughter cleaned up her own mess. I didn't raise my voice once even while I was being punched in the breasts! I felt pretty proud of myself.
So I don't have a lot of advice really. Things remain pretty difficult, but I do want to encourage all who are struggling like me to get some support for yourself. Get some strategies for staying calm even when on the inside you feel like you might explode. A psychologist described it to me like this:
You wouldn't think twice before hauling your child off the road as a car came towards them. You need to have the same approach to protecting your child from their own destructive behaviours.
So staying calm and in control of myself is well the big big challenge.
I don't think anyone who ends up on this forum is here because they are a crappy parent. You end up here because you care about your child. Like me you probably make mistakes all the time but that doesn't make you a failure. (Maybe I am really writing this to myself...:)
My child is 2 years old, I have friends who told me my baby is gifted child which I had no any idea about it. i want to make sure for professional people if he is a gifted child or just smart.
He can say and read A to Z correctly without any mistakes and he can spell out any word in English, he also can count from 1 to 12 and he knows all the colors in two languages English and Arabic. he can remember things even if he saw it or heard it only once .. Other thing he start walking when he was 10 months old, he hold his bottle by him self when he was 4 months of his age ... I have more to tell about him.
Until now am not sure if he is gifted child or this is just normal behavior for toddler please advice and I need to know if I have to contact some one about my baby.
Hi Rana,
I would suggest you email Sue Breen who works with gifted/bright preschoolers and is an expert in that field.
sue.breen@giftededucation.org.nz
Take care
Chris
