Can someone tell me how/where I can get help with the management for the behaviour of my son.
I am at a point where I just don't know what to do anymore and things just can't go on they way they are. The final straw was today when my son 8yr old decided that today was the day he was going to share with the world his ability to have a tantrum to rival all tantrums. tantrums aren't new but the need to share with all in the school playground after school today is. I recieved many looks of disgust from the many parents standing around. I have never felt so humiliated in all my life.
His ehaviour is becoming very socially isolating for the whole family so need to try and get something in place.
I'd recommend the following. Are you in contact with any parenting support groups, just to get some advice, an ear, etc?
Next, you could try the school - what sort of relationship do you have with them, and, can the teacher recommend anything? Is your son like this at school, at home, both? If you have a good relationship with the teacher, perhaps sit down and have a chat about your son. Does the school have an RTLB and would that be appropriate?
Has your son had any psyc assessments, and, if so, is the psyc available for follow-up? If the tantrums are in part due to unmet needs at school, some of this could be addressed.
If your son's behaviour is truly dysfunctional, would you consider going to the GP for advice?
Are you after general parenting advice - firm rules and boundaries, rewarding the positive etc. Or are there other issues? We don't know your background so it's hard to know what to say without knowing the extent and severity of his behaviour or what you feel may be contributing to it.
I feel for you having the other parents there. Not easy. But of course you know that they were probably thinking "thank God it's not me this time".
I think you've made a great step and are doing the right thing for your son. Many parents would be afraid to ask for help and admit this behavior in their children...tantrums would continue, and, relationships would be strained. Good luck.
Thanks for the response Anon
To start with No I am not in any parenting support group. As far as I know there is nothing in our area. I am in the Manawatu. Finding my way through the mine field one day at a time. Don't have any family in the area for support either so life gets rough from time to time.
The school is fantastic and we have managed to get on top of a lot of the school behaviour. But unfortunately the things that the teacher makes work and school I can't seem to make wk at home. The only assesment we have had done are the educational Psyc ones a couple of years ago and that was when we were living in AKld.
As for his behaviour, it's not naughty defiant behaviour that is the issue it's more a social/emotional one. If he feels that something isn't fair or he's been dealt with injustly he just falls apart. It's diffiicult to explain it's kinnd of something you have to see to undrstand, if that makes sense. Today all started before the end of school where someone had picked up and moved his books and when he went to get them and realised that they had been moved he instantly shrieks on the topp of his lungs and yells and it goes on and on and becomes difficult to reason with. He was asked to step out of the classroom and calm down. Then when school finished he was already worked up about it and it just opens a can of worms. He then started going on about how it was unfair that I wouldn't buy him a canteen bandanna, which he had been told he could have if he had done some things I had asked of him. of which he hadn't done so I said no. Then we got the yelling and screaming because if was unfair because everyone else had one etc etc. He continues to try and argue the point so I tell him that I have given him my answer and reason and we are no longer going to discuss it. I tried to talk to a fellow parent and my daughters. He then just screams "mummy Listen to me" at me as loud as he can and it doesn't matter how much I ignore him he just continues. He then becomes so worked up all the injustice he has bottled up explodes out like he doesn't get as much computer time as everyone else etc etc. There is no reasoning with him as most of the time it's untrue unless he hasn't been behaving. Then he brings up things like how people are always hurting him at school, when questioning him further about these things it's usually the usual school yard accidental bumps and knocks, nothing intentional. This is all going on with him screaming at the top of his lungs. by the time he actually manages to calm down he can barely remember the reason why it all started. This can go on for up to 2 hrs and usually involves me sitting with him and talking to him to calm him as he just is so wound up he can't control himself. I then feel bad as I feel like I have rewarded his behaviour with my time but I just don't know what else to do with him.
As for the looks from the other parents many were looks of disgust......needless to say there has been many tears in our house tonight. The frustrating thing is when he has finally calmed down he gets on with life as if nothing has happened.
Sorry the post was so long
Big hugs from me as well!!
You have done well to make it this long before reaching the end of your tether. I went to see my GP (many years ago now) when my eldest was 5 and a half with very similar stories. I too didn't know where to turn as school kept fobbing me off as she was a different child there. So do go to the GP if you are able.
We initially got sent to counselling, But all it did was reinforce that we were doing most things right.
But towards the end of our "parenting" sessions we had a change in GP who suggested a change in diet. I have mentioned it many times on this forum before, but it really was life changing for our entire family.
After a few weeks the huge range in intensities of DD's emotions reduced dramatically. We still had bad days but the tantrums only lasted minutes instead of hours and we were finally able to get her attention before things got too out of hand to make her look at her behaviour from the outside.
We removed all gluten and dairy as well as preservatives and artificial flavourings etc etc.
I bought the book the chemical maze and took it whenever I went food shopping, and I baked and baked.
5 years down the track she has grown into the most amazing young lady!! She is still supposed to be on this diet, but it is harder to manage as she is out and about so often. We ALL know if she has been eating gluten as she becomes easily frustrated over trivial stuff and gets down (sad) in the evenings over anything she can find to be sad about....
Years ago someone made the comment on this forum about many gifted children having food sensativities, I think that there are just as many gifted kids with food sensativities as non gifted kids. However I do believe that our children are super sensative and their behavioural reactions are just so intense that it is more obvious.
Doctor Rodney Ford in Christchurch has an interesting website if you are interested in the gluten free path which we took.
Hi JanK Thanks for your response. Yes I have often thought about his diet but Ijust don't know if I have the stamina to go there. Food with him is a battle on a good day, he is the hardest child I know to feed. I just don't know what he would eat if we restricted his diet. I have been fighting over food for about 4.5yrs and not sure I wont to make it worse.
I might have to do some research and see what I can find and consider having a go.
Please don't take this the wrong way meand3 but is it possible that there are things going on that are truly making him feel so very 'hard done by' and aggrieved? I'm asking because we've had similar issues with our younger child, issues that are now a lot less frequent after we came to see just *why* our child had such a hair-trigger at any perceived injustice.
Our younger child is the kindest child you could meet. Not defiant. Hard work because of intensities and energy level, but not 'naughty'. In fact, both of our boys are fairly "good". But, the younger was prone to tantrums, usually involving injustices around the way he thought we treated his older brother and him. The simply reality was that when our younger child "transgressed' or got upset, he would engage in behavior that was difficult to manage - outbursts, tantrums, crying etc and consequently got in trouble all of the time. Our older child on the other hand would be difficult in 'easier to handle' ways - up to the room sulking, perhaps an insolent remark. Because that was easier on us, the older didn't get told off as much by us.
We took a good long look at how we were treating each child simply on the basis of what behaviors *we* found easier to deal with. The younger child, quite rightly, saw that his brother's transgressions were more easily tolerated. That wasn't fair, not at all. And unfortunately, it just spiralled downwards. It got to the point where the slightest injustice - wham.
It wasn't always easy - because DH wasn't always on the same page - but I started being far more accepting of who our younger child was, treating his tantrums no differently to his brother's more 'subtle' sulking for instance, simply because tantrums are less socially acceptable. I insisted that DH and my other son be more tolerant. DH might have thought I was soft but, instead of getting worse, the tantrums *have* lessened.
It was, and still is, full on reassurance for our younger boy. And boy it's working. Please don't take this the wrong way in assuming the issue lies with you. It could be school, dietary, any number of reasons. . But you wrote that you gave him an answer and tried to talk to your daughters and he yelled. Sounds like my boy. And yes, I believe you should be able to talk to your daughters. Of course. But, it's about changing the pattern so that sense of injustice lessens a bit, breaking the cycle. And that may take some time. Now when our boy gets upset he is not so panicky - he knows it's not the end of the world if he has a tantrum - that he wont cop it in an unfair way - and that helps him control his emotions even more. And he just doesn't have that 'hair-trigger'.
He's waiting for me to put him to bed now, so it's a bit rushed. Please don't take it the wrong way. your post just rang a bell that's all. And, it's been wonderful to have our son be so much happier.
good luck.
And I should add that I was that way as a child - huge sense of injustice. Rightly or wrongly, that's how I felt, that's how my boy felt (in our case, quite rightly IMO). So I have focussed really hard on trying to change that.
The other issue of course is that once a tantrum started he got so upset about having a tantrum that it would get worse. He was scared of his own loss of control. So part of the reassurance was in teaching him that he *could* learn to control his behaviour, and, although certain behaviours in certain environments are completely unacceptable, we loved him none the less for it. And we certainly didn't love him less because he yelled, whereas his brother simply glared or sulked. He's not so scared of tantrums now. He knows he's loved of course but there's no denying we - and those around him - reacted more strongly to his behaviour than his brother's.
There may be other things going on with your boy - our child never does this at school for instance. But, just my two cents worth in the hope that it could help. Because it's not nice on you, your boy, or other family members.
And to have other parents looking in disgust is even worse. How is that going to make the poor boy feel?
Hi,
I'm sorry I don't think I've got anything to offer except I'm cerftainly following this thread with interest because your son and our son sound so similar! I too struggle desperately to know how to deal with intensy angry & irrational outbursts. Our son also is the fussiest eater I know and there is no way I could limit his diet any further. The only thing that I've done that seems to have helped is to be very intentional about doing all I can to improve our relationship by doing things with our son that he likes.... (eg 1:1 time, games with just him) then when the outbursts come the horrid times feel somewhat balanced by memories of good times too. Thinking of you.
That's my son! Except we seem to be on a winning path (two steps forward one step back).
The cause of our 7 year old boys issues is purely the Emotional Intensity that goes hand in hand with giftedness. There is a lot of fabulous information online - particularly anything by Linda Silverman. Reading about these Emotional Intensities really helps me and my boy understand what's going on so we can work (slowly) on directing those emotional intensities properly.
We have had the help of an OT who was able to talk to him about it and brainstorm so ways he could deal with those intense emotions.
Yes, we still have those incidents in schoolyard while EVERY mother is looking at you while your son is SCREAMING, kicking, punching but they are less and less. He is starting to understand and he always apologises afterwards and cuddles and feels bad, which is why he is working so hard at it.
Good luck. You're not alone and, with perseverance, patience, and guidance you will get there!
Hi Robyn
Like you I believe that most of what we are dealing with is the emotional intensity with his giftedness....I think what I really need help in most is finding someone who can help him find ways to deal with these emotions. I just find it hard now that he is getting older his behaviour is becoming more socially unacceptable for a child of his age. I in no way want him to change in a way that he is no longer my boy but my fear is that this is just another thing that is going to make him even more "different" from his peers than he already is. He has very few friends, well 1, anyway I would hate for that friend to be driven away by this behaviour.
Anon , thanks for the input I will keep this in mind but off the top of my head we do try to deal with them all the same way. Incidentally no one has got the bandana as they didn't hold thier end of the bargin. Same rules apply to them all. No dinner no dessert etc. It seems, at this stage I have only been blessed one very intense, gifted child. I read on here about those of you with many gifted children and how if you have one gifted child you are likely to have more. At this stage I only seem to have the 1 of the 3. I couldn't imagine 3 like my son.
Hi Robyn
Like you I believe that most of what we are dealing with is the emotional intensity with his giftedness....I think what I really need help in most is finding someone who can help him find ways to deal with these emotions. I just find it hard now that he is getting older his behaviour is becoming more socially unacceptable for a child of his age. I in no way want him to change in a way that he is no longer my boy but my fear is that this is just another thing that is going to make him even more "different" from his peers than he already is. He has very few friends, well 1, anyway I would hate for that friend to be driven away by this behaviour.
Anon , thanks for the input I will keep this in mind but off the top of my head we do try to deal with them all the same way. Incidentally no one has got the bandana as they didn't hold thier end of the bargin. Same rules apply to them all. No dinner no dessert etc. It seems, at this stage I have only been blessed one very intense, gifted child. I read on here about those of you with many gifted children and how if you have one gifted child you are likely to have more. At this stage I only seem to have the 1 of the 3. I couldn't imagine 3 like my son.
FWIW - both of our children are gifted and they are VERY very different in their behaviour, although I would say that both are emotionally intense - one is just a lot better at controlling it than the other.
I hope you find some success with this. Our younger child's tantrums have lessened in frequency, intensity, and length, although it seems we may have had different issues to you.
It's helped us to have him talk about his fears of having a tantrum - he doesn't like being out of control either. "Worry scales" have also helped - often gifted kids can be quite logical as well as emotionally intense and now we have grown into discussions about how bad any given outcome "really" is.
Getting other adults in his life onboard will help too - they need to know that although you realise his behaviour is unacceptable, he just is emotionally intense. That's who he is, and you both could use support in helping him cope with that. I know things were harder on our younger one when extended family would 'comment' or 'walk off' - the sense of injustice ramped up then. I wont tolerate them doing that now (but again, I took a very "soft" approach simply to break the cycle of that very real sense of injustice).
Re friends - my younger son has a soulmate. Boy that other kid is high-maintenance and the two of them together - yikes!! But they're accepting of each other, and the two of them together are delightful. Your boy will find that friend, if he doesn't already have it. I never thought mine would, but he did. Even a child who doesn't share the intensities but has his own 'quirks' would be able to share in some of the experiences your boy has around others. Is your boy around other gifted children in school? That can really help - my child and friend are and although these two aren't friends with the bigger group, the bigger group accepts the quirkiness.
Ask around and find some support groups in your area. If there aren't gifted support groups, I wonder if you would be able to find some gifted kids and families through any homeschooling networks as sometimes that route is chosen for gifted kids. That would help immensely Have you read any of Dabrowski's work (I think the spelling is right). Someone might correct me but I think that deals with intensities.
Thanks again Anon.
I'm not sure my son fears having a tantrum at all it's just what he does....As for getting adults in his life on board. We have only been in the area for a yr therefore don't really know that may people. Those people who are closest to us do realise that isn't necessarily something that he can help. Although this doesn't make it any easier for me when he does it, I feel like a useless mother who can't control her child...
Yea he does have 1 friend but it's the taunting in the playground that he often mentions that is the worry and as he get older and the children get more knowing I fear that they are just going to wind him up to get the reaction out of him. His friend is a gifted child bt is about as opposite from my son as you can get.
From what i have been told there isn't a lot of suppport around in the area for gifted children. There is ODS but for us it isn't an option as we can't justify the money to send him. It would mean everyone else would have to miss out on things like swimming lessons and dancing etc and I don't feel that that is fair on the others. I think that it would be all a lot easier for me to deal with if I did know others who were in a similar situation. I have never had any contact with families with gifted children, particularly ones at all like my son. We have no family here so I really don't have any support other than my husband, who doesn't always see things from my point of view. School holidays are looming which I dread, particularly this time as my husband goes away for wk the day they start and doesn't return till they are done. Could be a very long 2 wks...
It's nice to hear from you on here knowing that there are others who understand. So thank you for taking the time to respond.
I'm feeling for you and hope the great advice posted so far has helped.
I wonder whether there was one idea you could try, which isn't too overwhelming, and to take encouragement from the positive effect it has, however small. Something like working really hard to get your son to bed early, or thinking of the triggers and avoiding them as well as you can. Then each day you can remind yourself, for example, that at least he wasn't tired, which would've made it worse. My idea is that having started with one thing to try, you might then feel empowered to try something else, and to gain confidence in yourself as you go along.
My oldest son is raging with teenage hormones at the moment, and the most effective advice I've read might work in your situation too. Instead of thinking about how incredibly unreasonable my son is being, and wondering how I could have such an emotionally unbalanced child, etc, etc, I focus instead on my reaction. I work on just modelling how I would like my son to act if someone is raging at him. I work on remembering that we will get through this moment, and that the more gentle and sweet I am, the more quickly we will become close again afterwards. I work on not swearing or shouting or threatening that he will lose privileges, and I find that really hard. And then afterwards, when he's calmed down, I remind myself that it would've got way more out of hand than it did, if I hadn't done that hard work. So even if I shouted, I remind myself that I didn't swear, or whatever. The effect of this strategy has been huge, and although I know it's a long path we're treading, I finally feel like we're on the right path.
And the only other idea I have is to try NOT having rewards for good behaviour. It's radical, I know, but the less I have hinging on the children's behaviour, the less pressure they feel, and the better they behave.
I wish I could send you a bottle of wine or a bar or chocolate or whatever your favourite treat is, because you're doing the hardest job ever. Sending you the best wishes.
Fish oil supplements really helped my son with his emotional outbursts. Choose a brand that is high in EPA's rather than DHA's (the EPA's help more with mood and behaviour). Expect it to take about 3 months to see results. The results have been quite significant for us. Read the book "They are what you feed them" for more info.
Dear MEand3 .... you must be exhausted and so worried! I possibly have very little to offer that would be helpful to you but I have always felt that tantrums were the result of an enormous frustration with communication (hence the terrible two's) .... children need to be heard or feel heard? we were at psyche with our 7 year old and it turned out that we were 'deal breakers' with her ..... we'd say 'yes we're going to paint your room', but we would be chatting in general, nothing specific - she would hear 'we are painting your room now' ..... and then deal with crushing disappointment when it didn't happen, which lead on to behavioural issues (!). We are now very clear with her about what is happening and we make sure she tells us what she thinks is happening so we are all on the same page. We also absolutely deliver on anything we promise. It is such a small thing but it lead to her loss of faith in us and in the world around her - I would never have picked it up in a million! Your boy is trying desperately to communicate something to you that's not right in his world .... he's a lucky boy for having a mum who cares so much about him, best wishes.
As I mentioned, we hooked in with an Occupational Therapist who grew his confidence in himself (he's NOT stupid, he's NOT bad) that we are back to near normal "boy" behaviour.
You can get financial help with ODS, if you qualify. We attended for 3 terms. That was a haven for my boy. Now he's "Graduated" (he felt he was missing his friends at school - he never had friends before!!!).
Keep going!! Keep Fighting!! Yes, I have the husband saying "You sure he's gifted? He just seems "Bad". It's discouraging. Keep going. Mother's are usually right.
Wish I could help more.
(Had a little weep in the schoolyard last week watching my "problem" child playing so happily with boys his own age, just like a "normal" kid - that's all I wanted in life: happy kids)
P.S - don't know if you child is Visual-Spatial - if he is, have a read of "Upside Down Brilliance" by Linda Silverman. Had to buy the book I borrowed it so much from the library (Cheapest to buy from Australian Gifted site). That has been my bible to understanding my lovely boy.
Robyn - out of interest where are you? I'd be very interested to hear of an OT that can boost self-confidence? My daughter is dyspraxic but has so far refused to work with an OT as she says it makes her feel like she is "not normal". Unfortunately she also has very low self-belief and will often put on baby voices etc as a way of putting up a protective shield if that makes sense. Thanks - and sorry for the hijack Meand3.
Yes Childs Play. We work with Caroline at Child's Play (gifted dyspraxic boy). He has made significant tangible changes with writing, perceptual awareness, and managing his behavior. And school is becoming easier for him and his peer relationships have improved. And yes it has had a definite impact on the childs self confidence. Caroline has been a wonderful support for both my son and me. And he really looks forward to going to see her.
Sorry I'm a litte late on all this. We too have an 8yr old child with mild cerebral palsy/dyspraxia. She doesn't meet the "national standards" in writing or maths. We don't qualify for funding as she is "too well behaved and has no social issues", therefore we have just purchased a laptop and writing program to assist in class which is helping. We have been down the OT trail but because we have done swimming and ballet for the past 4.5 years, now into drama and netball as well (oh yes, weekly session with osteo as well), we seem to be managing. I hate the silly noises and baby talk, not being able to make real friends etc but we get on and deal with all the best we can. School is fantastic and have no concerns at moving our girl up to year 4 because she is very mature and social for her age. Taking fish oil each day, keeping the sugars down and lots of sleep seem to work. If there was an endless supply of $$$$$ who knows what the answer could be. Good luck, R
