This is a new support and discussion board for parents and teachers of highly gifted children - ie, highly, exceptionally, and profoundly gifted. It recognises that many of the issues of giftedness for these children (and their parents) are different. This is a place you can freely discuss the good and bad things about extreme intelligence and know you will be believed and that other people have had similar experiences.
This board is an offshoot of the Precocious and Prodigious board. It has a wider focus and is moderated.
Hi, just found this old thread 2004 on a search engine.
"This is a new support and discussion board for parents and teachers of highly gifted children - ie, highly, exceptionally, and profoundly gifted. It recognises that many of the issues of giftedness for these children (and their parents) are different."
Is there anything around in NZ like this? Would be great to be able to communicate with parents locally of HG, EG, PG type children - (and the associated issues).
If not, anyone interested in getting together to try and set something up? An e-mail list or something?
I have haven't been able to find any support so far, and we feel so very different and isolated.
The pool of G&T identified children is small so obviously sub-groups extremely small and likely to be communicating off-line after meeting at larger G&T groups or this forum.
Do you have contacts for local gifted groups? They can allow you to meet HG, PG, EG children's parents in your area so you can swap details and support each other.
This forum is very supportive and you can get lots of suggestions from those interested in G&T issues. Many on here may not have HG/PG/EG children but will have come across ideas in reading around giftedness.
Of course all gifted children are different and finding children with many similarities to your own is often difficult, but at least here we find acceptance and understanding (without the wall created by perceptions of 'giftedness' in general society).
I am keen and had myself been thinking about emailing the forum manager here to ask if there can be a forum topic set up for the HG/EG/PG group. There are a lot of "issues" that are shared across the entire gifted community, such as the heartbreaking isolation of our children, but we also have issues that are not faced by the wider gifted community. And although this forum is very useful and there are many wonderful ideas posted, sometimes it would be nice to see more responses pertaining to the HG+ children. I make a point of re-reading the Miraca Gross book to remind myself of the different issues our children face, which is especially important, for instance, when programmes or 'solutions' might be offered that, whilst suiting moderately gifted children, just aren't as successful for EG children. I can't recall who wrote it (perhaps Miraca Gross) but isn't it the case that EG children are as different from MG children as MG children are from those who are not gifted?
Thanks for your reply. I have been on this list a while, it’s great that we have it. I of course have been “reading the books” also. We have been aware our child was GT for a couple years now. As our first child grows we have noticed the gap ever widening between them self and others. Initially, average children, then bright children, then gifted children. Friendships have been brief they seem to come to an end very quickly. Things in common seem to be left behind. My child attempts to play other children’s games but other children never want to play his games, so it just doesn’t work.
We have tried the groups (continue to try). We have found Teacher’s not supportive. Our child is different. The Teacher’s will cite the majority of gifted children and question why mine is not like the others, why are they not as happy with the same stimulation. How can we say they are not having their needs met when all the other gifted children are?
Of late I have noticed on this forum, people referring to higher levels of GT as “parents ego”. GT’s being tailored to differently would result in children of a differing level of giftedness e.g. MG being excluded. It just doesn’t appear very supportive in these cases. I feel like a minority within a minority. In a way our child is excluded because they are not MG, we don’t fit the majority of GT’s. It’s not easy.
Yes, on the forum a separate section is a great idea. I just haven’t noticed many people posting here I thought it might feel “safer” on a e-mail list, surely there are a few parent’s out there (well I’m hoping anyway) that would like to share ideas, disappointment, joy, frustration and maybe feel a little less isolated and unusual?
I think I have read a similar evaluation, I believe I read it comparing the 99th percentile to the 99.4th percentile difference possibly being similar to the 50th and the 75th. It makes the numbers seem so small but the difference so vast in the higher percentiles. (I know its not just all about the numbers though and I’m certainly not a Psychologist!)
There haven't been too many responses to your post here; I wonder if re-posting it under 'various other issues' might help??
Unfortunately, I too can relate to feeling like a minority within a minority. It can be very difficult at school, even when you get the teachers who are knowledgable and sympathetic towards gifted children. The vast majority of gifted children they will deal with will simply not be like our children. And of course, it seems like *we* (parents, our children) are to blame when programmes and ideas work for other gifted children but not ours. I'm sure the school attributes our lack of satisfaction to *us* (because it works for all the others, right) and not to the fact that our children are different again. I can't tell you the number of times we've heard the "other gifted children" comments.
It must be even more difficult for parents of PG, or 2E, who have different issues yet again, and, a smaller 'pool' of available support.
It's a difficult problem, definately. I'm thinking Individual Education Plan is the way to go as all GT are so different and the whole asynchronous development thing results in, for example, a GT who is reading years above their age being 'clustered' with a GT whose special ability is mathematical and is average age level reading. At least with clustering the fast-learners are together.
Yours is an extrapolation of the problem originally encountered as schools finally recognised that GT kids didn't excel in the 'teach to the middle' environment. Now we've got (in some cases) the middle of the top stream being catered for but the top of the top are still not extended/challenged sufficiently.
Interesting to read your 'parents ego' comment, I haven't seen that yet and would be very sad to. Who is really pleased they've got a highly gifted child with all these extra issues to face? Not me. I have had son tested so any claims of 'pushy parent' etc by the education system can be refuted.
I relate to your comment about the games. My son is like that but at least has his younger sister to play with.
Hi MotherTo2
I just want to be a little pedantic here and state that actually, there isn't so much difference between 99% and 99.4%! Apparently 'highly' doesn't start until 99.6% so 99.4% is still considered moderately gifted. I'm not being picky just correcting a statement. As forum manager I do understand where you are coming from with your suggestion. However I also believe that regardless of 'how gifted' your child/ren might be you should be able to start topics about issues your children are having and have them answered anywhere in this forum. I do agree that EG, PG, 2E, and even HG have different issues to say those children who are 'just' moderately gifted. My own daughter is twice exceptional (ie gifted with learning 'issues') and so I have faced many issues with her that parents with children who enjoy academic success (who may not even be gifted) haven't and therefore can't understand.
I think that by posting a topic and asking questions, you have the added advantage of having many various answers and suggestions - you simply choose those that seem to suit you best - regardless of where on the ladder those ppl answering are. I think also that many who post on this forum don't state exactly where there children are at in percentile - and again, I don't think this matters.
I do understand that parents of children who are very gifted have very different issues to those who are only moderately gifted. I just can't see why they cannot share anywhere on this forum as with everyone else. We all feel isolated at times and if we can't feel supportive of each other who will. I haven't noticed the posts you have spoken of stating 'parents ego' and I must say it's dissapointing if there are those who feel like that.
I remember a documentary on tv some years ago about a little ice-skating girl. The number of comments on this forum suggesting the child was pushed by an over-bearing mother absolutely flabbergasted me! After all - haven't we all experienced being pushed by our children when they want to learn something? We of all ppl should have learnt not to judge others as others judge us.
I appreciate you pointing this out MotherTo2 - I think this should be a lesson learned by us all. We have all faced difficulties with our children, many of us have faced relatives and friends who refuse to believe in 'giftedness' - one of my sister's favourite sayings is 'all children are gifted'. We should at least support and defend others on this forum rather than putting down and excluding - even if we don't quite understand or haven't experienced what they are going through.
Anyway - just my comments...
I’m unclear here, what statement are you correcting? The highly educated author of a book? I wasn’t actually referring to HG levels, just that the small numbers mean more at the higher end of the scale, in response to Anon’s “EG children are as different from MG children as MG children are from those who are not gifted?”
I agree the percentile isn’t all it’s about, there are a lot of other indicators, and testing cannot be perfect. I have posted on here not discussing the “level” also, I don’t want to wave a banner, offend anyone or anything like that at all.
I don’t really have questions that I need answered at this time, I would if I did, it’s a great forum. I am more trying to link up with other people, parents, children, whatever, via e-mail. I believe in NZ 5% of children are considered gifted, OK that’s relatively small, but our child has not found anyone yet like him at any of these get togethers. It’s just plain lonely not coming across someone else who thinks in the same way.
I don’t think I ever used the term ‘just’ moderately gifted either. I would never say ‘just’, I’m MotherTo2 after all. I have another child, we are sure they are a GT type person, we can only guess at the likely level and as I have previously mentioned I believe MG are better catered to and I think it would actually make things easier.
I appreciate this is a list for all in the gifted community, but can the community not have sub-groups as well? Take sports for instance, there will be some commonality in soccer and judo, both sports, both have rigorous training, practice and perseverance, but there are also differences.
I just thought it was a bit sad the NZ’ers should have to go off-shore to sites such as the one Haven posted at the top of this thread, wouldn’t it be great to have a group here? Not to exclude people but as an off-shoot. As I said, I’m happy to set one up if you don’t think it’s appropriate, I have included an e-mail contact.
Hi,
I've been looking over these forums for a couple of years now and never posted anything.
My son is 9 years old and highly gifted and I think this is just what I have been waiting for.
He has been attending ODS for almost a year now and we have just joined the Explorers club. I am still waiting for him to get make a friend. Its heartbreaking and although people say they get it, they just don't.
I don't have any questions at this stage either but it would be nice to hear about other people kids and experiences. I am interested in either chatting through here or by email.
I just thought I would express my interest. Thanks for getting this forum initiated.
Deanna
Hi Deanna, Glad you're posting now. It's a much more interesting community when people participate.
Thanks.
Hi MotherTo2,
I'd be interested in reading about the issues of families with children further to the right of the bell curve than mine. It would certainly help me appreciate that others have it tougher. Success stories also relished, particularly around dealing with education system. I'd love to read some of the amazing things children achieve, as I know that it's really hard for parents of GT to feel free to share their children's progress in general society.
it's awsome to see more people coming forward. I notice the Recent NZAGC Forum Messages just came out, maybe more people will notice this thread and be interested! Yay!
It has been interesting to read all the new posts on this thread. My son has been a member of Explorers off and on for about fours years now and I really respect the tremendous work they do in providing the activities. My son has never related to the other kids though only the topics and some of them have been fantastic and engaged him on a deep level - that one run by the chap fronm Auckland University on artificial intelligence comes to mind.
I think the isolation we as parents experience comes with the territory , all these kids are so different regardless of where they stand on the gifted scale. My son's own school has made huge efforts and great strides in learning to challenge gifted kids. However not all of the initiatives have been entirely successful with my boy.
But we keep trying and all I can say is the only difference to the outcomes that our children will have is the amount of "pushing' we do on their behalf not how "pushy' we are or appear to be. In all the dialogue I have had with my son's school-so many meetings and so many emails -I have not really paused to reflect how I am perceived because if I did I might be deflected. I,to the best of my ability remain polite, courteous, patient and supportive of new initiatives. I do however seek answers , accountability and resolve of issues. That has helped me in my particular situation.
I understand some of the posts about 'groups within groups" may lead to some feeling excluded. I have found that to speak honestly about issues encouraged others to 'open up' and invited participation. We are a small country and we will never have the critical mass to have more than a few souls who share the same experiences. The forum seems a good space of that and if it leads to further dialogue among some so much the better!
Cheers
I think Rebecca has touched on a key issue here - we all have similarities of feeling isolated, frustrated, children struggling, and ultimately, we're all parents or caregivers here desperate to get the best for our children.
However, I do think the following statement of yours Rebecca needs qualifying:
"I think also that many who post on this forum don't state exactly where there children are at in percentile - and again, I don't think this matters."
If we're discussing things like frustration talking to schools, sense of isolation, sharing a joyful or stunning comment or insight our child has made, then of course, it doesn't matter. If we're sharing experiences about solutions that may have worked (acceleration being an obvious one) then it *does* matter; this is a theme running through much of the literature on EG children. As an example, I have a child who is twice-skipped (in primary school) and gets some enrichment yet this is not enough. Would I post on an 'acceleration' thread - "forget it - skipping two years is NOTHING"? No. Not without stating *why* because for some gifted children a well-supported one-year skip would suffice. At times giftedness levels *is* relevant.
I also think that discussing percentiles such as 99.4 and 99.6 is pointless. However, there is a vast difference in the experience of a child who, in a school of 500, could have many others who are 'similar'. That's not to say they will find friends, as there are so many other factors that come into play. But, an MG child has a greater likelihood of at least being around others who are "as different". Some EG children could go through school never finding anyone like them. (1 in 20 cf 1 in tens of thousands is quite different). Linda, you were interested in some of the issues faced. The sense of isolation is *huge* and I applaud Motherto2 for reaching out this way. We are in 'gifted communities' and although there are many similarities, we do still feel a little like outsiders. Obviously, when our children are lonely, for example, it is no 'harder' for them and us than it would be for others who are lonely. It's just that perhaps they may experience more loneliness as even within these gifted groups our children are different again.
Many here, no matter what the level of giftedness, feel we can't share our successes or things our children have done outside of gifted communities. This forum is wonderful for that; it is a safe place to do so. In saying that, it can be very hard for us, with HG+ children, to post a reply to some threads. As a fictional example, someone may post an agonising thread because "their Bobby" in the first four weeks of school has outstripped the others and was now ready for Yr 2 work. What on earth is the parent to do? This general theme (help, my children is different) is something we can all relate to and many might post a response. I personally would feel awkward sharing *our* experiences in response because that would require sharing that "our Bobby" in the first four weeks of school was now ready for Yr 4, 5, 6 or whatever. It could come across as minimising another's experience, or, one-upmanship. I suspect that many who would read such a post would sympathise with it simply being another difficulty but, given what we face outside of gifted communities, you'll all know how we might feel uncomfortable sharing that sort of information.
One thing that I personally find very difficult, and I don't know if other parents of HG+ children do, is feeling as if the only thing we can contribute to discussions is *negative*. We need to hear each other's success stories and joys and sometimes they are very few and far between because it is just that much more difficult finding things that work for our children.
Hi Anon, thanks for understanding the majority of what I said - or tried to say!
I agree that there is a vast difference between percentile numbers but the reason I don't believe it matters 'on this forum' is because this is an open forum and as such everyone gets a say about their children - regardless of percentile. That is what I meant it to come out as. In other words we should all encourage and support each other regardless of what each is going through. I'm not stating that everyone will understand - not everyone understands some of the issues I have faced either. No one can understand unless they've been there and that applies to all of life's circumstances.
To understand my point of view, you probably need to understand where I'm coming from. My children are 99% and 97% (although the youngest refused to participate in several parts of the assessment....). So they are both moderately gt. HOwever the Psych who assessed them both, stated that my daughter in particular has many issues, or um.. aspects to her character that are more in line with HG children. She is also very VS and has learning difficulties. They are both incredibly mature but have found it almost impossible to make friends with children their own age or older. After having watched them both in the schooling system - my son had only been in for 6 months and had suffered quite a bit from the other children around him - I decided to pull them out and homeschool them. The homeschool community seems much more accepting of character differences and the children have made friends of varying degrees within our local HS group (about 22 children aged between 3 - 14).
As I stated in my previous post - even though my children are MG rather than EG etc, it doesn't mean that all parents of MG children will understand my issues/dilemmas. I do hope I've made my opinions slightly clearer. It is so much easier to talk in person than write when discussing such emotive issues. I don't mean to demean or put down anyone or their opinion and I personally would love to hear some of the successes of HG PG and EG children! I wouldn't feel that it would diminish my own children's successes - rather I would love to be able to help you celebrate your own unique children's joys! i can't speak for everyone on the forum - but one thing I do want to say, is if you can't feel that you can share here - where can you? The gifted community in NZ is small and as such we should be as supportive of each other as possible. You do have issues different to mine - it doesn't make mine any less - just as mine wouldn't make others any less. Although, it also doesn't hurt if we can see at times that there are others worse off than us at times!
Hi all, I have just created a blog for anyone who may be interested in posting on the issues raised in this thread. The more the merrier so please anyone who is at all interested please e-mail me by clicking on my name above and I can invite you to be an "author".
Also anyone with any blogging exprience at all any input is appreciated! Thanks!
just wanted to tell you my 10 year old has just made a friend! It had been a big worry for me but I think only a source of mild puzzlement for Sam, he seemed a bit wistful when people asked him about friends at school and said he had none. I had been worried and as a result of my concerns, and from observing Sam slinking around alone when the library was closed, the vice principal invited Sam to bring anyone to her room at lunchtimes to use her construction toys. This was quite a big deal and a few children were pretty keen for Sam to take them. However either the toy was not cood enough - Sam mentioned that it was not lego or the whole concept was too alien or embarassing for him. I also engineered several play dates of likely characters but he was never invited in return. He wanted his ODS classmates for his party, not any one from his regular school, which went well although he had no particular friend among them. However I think although those things showed Sam that he was supported by the school and at home I don't think they achieved much. It was just the right person coming along that worked. I would also like to comfort any Mum worried about their friendless child (what an emotional phrase!) that certainly in my case I think I was more distressed by it than my child.
It is quite funny to see Sam and his new friend, who's parents were also very excited about the relationship, doing 5 year old friend stuff poking each other with pencils etc. but I imagine now they are working on the friend thing they will mature quickly. The pencil poking turned out to be experiments in how sharp the point needed to be to set off the funny bone.
I feel compelled to add to this stream as well as I agree a lot with what Rebecca is saying. I am also confused as to what you class HG, PG, EG etc. When I try to follow this up with our tester I'm simply told that DS fits into the extremely superior range. He tested GIA at 99.5 percentile but in several areas he is at the 99.9 percentile and I believe possibly hit a ceiling for the test!! Who knows.
Anyway what I am saying is that I think of DS as being moderately gifted as he doesn't come across to your average joe bloggs as gifted, or what they might perceive as gifted. We all have an image in our minds of the 'obviously gifted' children - but that is just such a judgement.
My DS has still had many problems with making friends, as he has always been drawn to children much older than himself. He was very fortunate last year that he happend to have a couple of boys in his class that I would consider EG and he clicked with one of them and they were best buddies with playdates every week. However this year they are in different classes and have been drawn to different children (both a lot older).
He also seems to be very happy with the other children at ODS. However the difference I think with DS is that as an only child he has always been very desperate for friends and so therefore has put himself out there. What I am trying to say here is that even MG children can have some of the same problems as what you are saying your EG children face. So sharing here could be really helpful.
There are so many other factors that go into the make up of these children not just their levels of giftedness. Our DS has just been diagnosed with Tourettes Syndrome so we have another level of 'differentness' that we are going to have to deal with over the next few years of his schooling. And another level of suppor that I will probably be looking for!
Please post here so that we can all share and help each other along.
Many of our gifted kids are in the 99.9percentile, but the EG and PG go further to the 99.9999999 etc percentile! As always, the further away you are from 'average', whichever end of the scale you are, the greater the differences and difficulties you will experience in engaging with the bulk of the population and 'the world'.
Issues are similar for most gifted kids, but the degree of difference is not the same for all. Solutions, stories and advice from each point on the spectrum are still valuable, as we apply them in ways that best meet our own contexts.
Regards
Sue
PS Hi, Rebecca. Great to meet you at the Gifted Ed Conference on the weekend and finally put a face to the name.
Thanks for the clarification - I'm sure I speak for others when saying that we would be interested in updates here on anything of value from the conference! I had thought about attending but the cost was prohibitive so may look at the course Continuing Ed are running instead.
I think when you're in a minority anywhere you should take what 'understanding' is offered and realise that people are trying to empathise and support. Anywhere we go on this parenting journey people offer 'advice'. I just take what may work from it. If someone has taken the time to care about your situation, I don't think it matters that their advice is rubbish, but that they are actually offering support with the right intentions.
I think what is important here when we are posting advice and solutions is to perhaps let others know our own situation, then, as Sue suggested, we can take what is posted and apply it to our own contexts. This is the case with *any* forum such as this, or any medium where advice, support, solutions are given. We appreciate it all but 'use' only what we need.
In saying that, the very fact that this thread is continuing for so long speaks to the difficulties that we, as parents of HG+ children, face. We're *all* on this forum because our children are "different" in that they are gifted. We *all* consider it important to have our own separate forum, turning to this instead of general parenting forums, or education forums. Perhaps some of you also post on parenting sites when there are behavioral issues. Perhaps some of you post on general education websites when there are school difficulties, or sites about friendship when your child is lonely. But you also come here, because your child is 'not like' the other children who are lonely, showing behavioral signs of frustration, struggling with a teacher. Your child is gifted. You post here because you consider the *differences* between your children and others to be important and relevant, and not the *similarities* that your children share with *all* children.
Yet when our children, those who are EG, experience these issues, we get reminded of the *similarities* between our children (EG) and other gifted children (MG).
When considering what advice and support should be available, we act on the fact that gifted children are'different' to the norm but we don't act on the fact that EG children are different to MG children??
True, we need to draw the line at how many 'subgroups' we have as some issues of course are relevant to all parents of gifted children and not to other parents. And some gifted children are twice exceptional. Et cetera. But as a parent of EG children who continually struggle due to others failing to distinguish between EG and MG children, I think it's time we paid more attention to these differences.
Marshe, I have copied a sentiment from your post, one that is perhaps shared by others on here:
"There are so many other factors that go into the make up of these children not just their levels of giftedness."
Think how you all would feel if someone responded to your gifted-related concerns with something very similar:
"There are so many other factors that go into the make up of these children not just their giftedness."
I think MotherTo2 found a wonderful solution with her blogspot. I just hope it doesn't 'remove' people from this forum as there *are* many similar issues, as we've stated. But to all of you, PLEASE, do not minimise, ignore, or dismiss, giftedness levels. IMO it's akin to minimising, ignoring, or dismissing giftedness. And none of us want that.
We all have gifted children, children who are 'different'. Therefore, when someone claims "help - my child is different" it is our duty to accept that and not refer to similarities. Let's help create, foster, and maintain a gifted-friendly, a 'different-friendly' society by responding not with "I don't see what difference it makes" but with "tell us more...."
I think 'sigh' that you have completely misunderstood the majority that has been written on this thread. As I personally stated days ago -
**- I'm not stating that everyone will understand
- I do agree that EG, PG, 2E, and HG have different issues
- you have the added advantage of having many various answers and suggestions - you simply choose those that seem to suit you best
- We all feel isolated at times and if we can't feel supportive of each other who will
- We should at least support and defend others on this forum rather than putting down and excluding - even if we don't quite understand or haven't experienced what they are going through.**
I cannot understand how any of those statements could've been taken in any way other than how they were meant - as supportive and at least an attempt of understanding. Sue has reiterated many of my initial points as have others.
It is a shame that on an issue that deserves much discussion and debate such as this, that you have felt the need to make derogertory statements about those of us at least making an attempt of understanding. This does not help your standing. I appreciate you are frustrated however that is not how we aim to get our points across on this forum.
Anon - I don't believe anyone here has minimised, ignored or dismissed issues related to highly gifted children. Obviously those of us who do not have highly gifted members of our families cannot understand - but we have understood at least that.
Thanks for your useful comments. It is important to highlight issues others are facing. It is certainly difficult parenting children that are extreme. The NZAGC Library has some great books so do contact Vicki as she is great with accessing extra information. Her contact details are on the home page. If you have any recommendations for new purchases for the library do email me direct.
As with any children, I guess no two highly gifted children are the same. In my work as a psychologist (and a parent...) I have found you really have to treat each child as an individual. What works with one, may not work with another. Involving the child, taking the time to listen is vital when dealing with the academic, social and emotional needs of all gifted children, especially highly gifted individuals. Twice exceptional children are another group who are complex and often misunderstood. I have been asked a number of times locally in CHCH if we can start a coffee / support group. I may get to this next term...
From personal experience I find it a bit of a roller coaster parenting highly gifted children. When I think we are getting on top of one aspect suddenly we are flying off on another. It is always useful finding people locally too. I found it great connecting with Explorers members who had similar children. Keep up the great discussion. I think it is the value of the forum that people can differ in opinions but still contribute.
I didn't mean that others might have minimised the *issues* that are faced; not at all. I referred specifically to minimisation of the importance of giftedness 'levels', that to me was conveyed in the following:
"There are so many other factors that go into the make up of these children not just their levels of giftedness."
Of course, our children are many things, not just gifted. However, as I wrote, how would some of us feel if someone suggested that 'other factors' go into the makeup of gifted children, not just giftedness (or other exceptionalities)? For those at the extreme end of the giftedness spectrum, the level of giftedness brings with it many many issues, which, in our experience, are *absolutely* paramount in the experiences our children have. It matters.
If EG children are going to get their needs met then we need to foster an understanding that giftedness levels matter just as we need to foster an understanding that giftedness matters. Unfortunately, it's a difficult balancing act. I personally come here for the support that parents of GT children offer, whatever the level their children are at. It's invaluable. Yet in doing so I am assuming that my EG children have in common many issues with other gifted children. Yet it is that very assumption among others - that EG children share issues in common with MG children - that continues to make life extremely difficult for my own children.
Just straight on in to share her thoughts - coz that is what she does.
I wish you luck with the search to find your son someone just "like him" .... I also hope that, for his sake, the exclusionary approach (those less gifted are not like him therefore he cannot have fulfilling friendships with them) does not end up backfiring on him too badly.
Personally, I've met a sum total of ONE other person "just like myself" .... in 40 years - what a very sad life it would have been for me had I been conditioned to the notions that the only relationships worth having were with an "IQ match".
You know what - when I first came to this site I was very much an "oddity" - people simply were not used to someone like myself and when something is unfamiliar to people - they tend to perceive that as threatening and respond accordingly.
And, if you run away and hide yourself - or if you create a facade of "likeness" then they will never ever have the opportunity to become familiar and adapt accordingly.
this will be my last post here. The whole thing has made me feel very sad. For any ‘interested’ in joining the group, please still, continue to contact me by clicking on my name. We could continue the private blog idea, have a group e-mail if preferred or just an opportunity to network. Now or in the future, try the link!
I really appreciate the support from all the brave people who have spoken out about these issues. Especially Anon’s “Yet in doing so I am assuming that my EG children have in common many issues with other gifted children. Yet it is that very assumption among others - that EG children share issues in common with MG children - that continues to make life extremely difficult for my own”. I feel you have put it so well for all of us.
By the way, my idea was NEVER to try and replace this forum, other people asked on this thread if they could have a section here. It was just to get some people together in a similar situation (please – there is no need to advise our Family again that we are not in this situation and that it does not matter for our Family).
Tiz Me, I’m actually not sure where you are coming from at all? I have never stated we are trying to create an exclusionary approach? In fact we go out of our way to create opportunities across the board, but it appears very difficult for others to understand, and I am not the most eloquent at getting my points across it seems. Please understand “idea mates” may not be quite as easy in a small country like NZ.
If anyone ever wondered what I meant in the beginning when I referred to “safer”, this is what I meant, having to explain yourself, feeling misunderstood. One person responded to this thread said they have never posted on it. I would like us to have something that is “on topic” for sharing without having to explain or argue or defend. Just relax, share, be believed. The forum has a different and very important role, but I believe is not meeting the needs of this particular group right now, as per posts.
Thank you for reading and as mentioned I will not be responding to this thread anymore, but feel free to contact me if interested.
Thats ok - not many do understand where I am coming from .... some come to understand .... sorta .... others come to accept even if they dont understand ... and others, well they eventually just give up trying.
In all my years of seeking out what I thought I was missing - I never once succeeded - go figure.
And then I switched tacks and you know what - I discovered something about myself - the more I GAVE to others what I perceived was lacking for myself .... the more I came to discover that I never actually needed what I thought I was missing - I just believed I did because that is what we are told is the case.
Hmmmmmmm I wonder how many HG/EG/PG kids we have amongst us that for one reason or another "tested" as being "MG".
And how many parents will never even think to ask the question if those with identified EG/PG kids will not share.
I was really hoping to be able to applaud all the wonderful achievements of EG/PG kids and empathise are the struggles that would be shared here if Motherto2's intent:
'I would like us to have something that is “on topic” for sharing without having to explain or argue or defend. Just relax, share, be believed.'
was realised. I'm sad that some feel they can't do this here. I think this is one of the most accepting forums I've ever come across personally.
I agree with you, Tiz Me, Linda and Rebecca. No matter what level of giftedness our kids test at, if we are all open to sharing our triumphs, problems, issues, we all stand a much better chance of learning more and being able to find something in here which may be helpful in our situations. In my own experiences with an EG child, I am always mindful that a really valuable piece of advice actually came from a friend with a child at the complete other end of the intelligence spectrum! And if parents of EG/PG children don't share too, how on earth are others to broaden their perspectives? While parents are the primary users of the Forum, I often direct teachers to look at the threads on parenting and schooling options to gain a better understanding of the issues and the real pain, both intellectual and emotional, that is out there for many.
HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: anon
Date: 20-03-09 14:27
I'm not sure that MotherTo2s original intent was to refrain from sharing with all, but to rather find additional support by connecting with others who shared not only giftedness in common, but, something else as well...extreme giftedness. Just as we might have 'gifted and 2E' or 'gifted and home-schooled'. And indeed, there is a separate section here pertaining to home education. It's available to all to read and pertains mostly to issues faced by home educators, although of course we can all draw things from the posts there.
I agree that this is sad - this is a wonderful place of support and ideas. When I look at the authors of those who have responded to MotherTo2s posts - Linda, Sue, Rebecca, Rose, and Tiz Me, of course, Tiz Me... ;-) - I see names whose posts I always read because there is always something to be taken from them and I'm mindful of the fact that this forum wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for you all (there would be a bunch of lurkers and occasional posters, like me, reading very little!). And, true, I have read great interest in the issues HG+ children face, a willingness to listen, an acceptance of the differences across levels. But, these differences have not been ratified (with support for a separate section). I guess when you are the parent of a gifted child, any gifted child, you sometimes need a little more convincing that you have truly been heard ... this is not a reflection on the support offered here but rather a reflection of continually feeling unheard... something we'll all relate to.
I'm going off-topic slightly here now. I personally do not agree with some of the responses to this thread but that is my own opinion and I think that we, as a group, have explored this issue (should the EG crowd have their own space) long enough. What follows is a highlight of some 'differences' between EG and MG not to continue to 'push' for our own space but because of the genuine interest ... to try and improve understanding of EG issues...
I have yet another school meeting to get to; my multi-skipped child needs something "more". Some of you are interested in the issues parents of EG children face - acceleration is a big one. Of course, acceleration is an issue for any gifted child but when you have a child, a young child, for whom 1, 2, 3...years is not enough, the implications are a little different. Our question is not "should we accelerate" but rather "how much should we accelerate" Also add, "how do we deal with such vast age differences". And, *perhaps* there is more resistance (from educators) when the age differences are greater, although of course, some of us face resistance when asking for just a year! Also, when you have a child who "should" start uni not 2 years earlier but 5 or 6... again, different issues. When you have a child who will miss not one year of high school but who could be very shortchanged on those wonderfully important high school years, the issues are different. I think that perhaps this is an issue that is different across different giftedness levels. I realise that all might struggle with the acceleration issue - how will classmates perceive my child, do I want him going through with kids older, he's so small in comparison etc - but you can imagine how things change when the classmates may have to accept not only a 'younger' child but a radically younger child, how much harder sport could be when there is such a size difference, and how we simply cannot avoid these issues by leaving our child with age-peers and rely on enrichment, clustering, pull-out extensions... they absorb too much, too quickly. Radical acceleration is a necessity.
On the positive side of having an EG child (aside from the joys of parenting etc; I'm writing specifically about schooling here)- and I know you, for example, Linda, wanted to hear of triumphs - sometimes the level of giftedness can make things easier. The difference in intellectual capacity between our children and others is at times more evident - even when our kids 'dumb down' or hide their abilities the school has to pay attention. I've heard too many times 'it works for other gifted kids' and have reminded the school of our childrens' level of giftedness to get some action. Were my children MG and still, for whatever reason, struggling, I think that could be harder to get attention that it wasn't right. I can respond to "it works for other gifted kids" by stating that "my kids aren't like most other gifted kids" (And, although our kids didn't test well, I have the paperwork to 'prove it'....that's another issue entirely).
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Sue
Date: 20-03-09 15:31
Hi, anon.
You are right - the issues with radical acceleration are huge. NZ schools have traditionally not embraced it, citing social reasons as being insurmountable. The degree of asynchrony with EG and PG kids - eg very high intelligence, but average or below physical development (for age), emotional age younger or older than chronological age - means that each case must be considered on its own. Schools cannot apply a one-size-fits-all approach and that makes many of them uncomfortable. I remember Stephanie Tolan talking last year about her frustration and anger at being told at a conference on gifted children that her PG son was 'statistically insignificant' and thus outside the scope what was being addressed at the conference! I think also of a boy I consulted with a school about a while ago who was in the PG range, in Yr 8 but capable of Yr 13 work, but whose behaviour was similar to a 6 yr old and the kids at secondary school just would not accept his toilet humour and silly noises in class when partial acceleration was trialled. In his case, the only solution was an entirely independent programme, but this did nothing for his social skills development. (Homeschooling wasn't an option for a variety of reasons.)
There are some interesting things being done in some secondary schools in NZ, particularly Rutherford High School in Auckland, whose approach is inspirational and totally student-focussed. After a very careful identification process, they largely individualise each student's programme to allow them to develop talents and acceleration is a given. For me personally, the high school thing is an issue at present as my son could easily skip from Yr 9 to Yr 12 in core subjects, with little difficulty, but his school doesn't do this. Multi-level study would be ideal for him and I am somewhat surprised that it isn't offered at such a large school (roll is over 2000). Meanwhile, he continues to keep himself stimulated by out-of-school interests and cruises through his classes thinking about what he will be doing once the bell rings! When he was younger, I used to tell him that things would get harder once he got to college - I know better now!!
With regard to University study at a young age, this does happen in NZ, but there are hurdles to overcome with regard to gaining credits under the age of 14. Still, individual consultation with the relevant people (eg Department Heads, Registry) may well overcome some of these.
Think I've probably gone off track here, too, but I hope I have at least acknowledged that the EG/PG issues certainly are real!
Can't help wondering if it might be time to move this thread to Parenting or Schooling Options, though - people might not find it under Internet Sites.
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Tiz Me
Date: 21-03-09 02:28
Hey Anon - I dont test as being PG or EG or anything and, sadly (or thankfully - Im in two minds as to which) I am no longer a child but I can honestly say that I had absolutely no difficulty relating to the issue you raised - although, that being said, not from the same perspective (ie - not the "parent of an EG child").
I was on the way to Taste of Auckland tonight with a friend - motor-mouthing about anything to distract myself from the process of getting there (went to YEX yesterday and have another do to go to tomorrow night - talk about sensory overload) and passed comment on not having my JC soundtrack to play which got onto the subject of my theatrical background which became a snippet on how, as a child my "peers" were, in retrospect, on average, about 2 decades older than me and it wasnt until I was about 11-12 (something like that) that some adult went and made a HUGE issue about how it wasnt appropriate for me to attend a particular event because I was a child (the person in question had an educational background).
I became acutely aware of not one but TWO things that day .... one was that there was a "distinction" between me and my friends in the eyes of some (perhaps many) - something that had never occurred to me because I hadnt experienced that as being the case and two .... man, I really did have friends - lots of them (cut a long story short - if I was not permitted to go then they wouldnt - I put in the same effort and was as much a part of the production as anyone else - was their reasoning).
But, even that young what I really did "get" was that those with an educational background (teachers) had a perfectly understandable reason for being uncomfortable with a student, particularly a rather young one mixing and mingling with "the adults" .... namely that their own behaviour "behind the scenes" was not always entirely in accord with the image of themselves they projected as teachers.
They needn't have concerned themselves - for often it is the boldest and the brashest that are the most capable of exercising discretion.
My "older friends" looked after me - but not as "adults looking after a child" - rather as friends watching out for a friend who, inspite of "fitting in" very well, had far more limited life experience - the same way one may "watch out for" a country cousin who has just moved to the big city.
The "High School Years" are only "wonderful" to those they are wonderful for .... rest assured - I would have done myself a service by giving the whole High School experience a miss (and did everything I could to do so).
Had I been MUCH younger when I started High School (not just a year or two) I have absolutely no doubt that I would have probably gained a great deal from the experience.
Of course, many (or most?) High School students may not have the social maturity themselves to be able to relate well to a much younger child in their class - and THAT really is an issue I cannot relate to in terms of personal experience but even in that situation, I can pretty much guarantee that it would have been preferable to being one of the "younger kids" in a non stimulating, non-challenging educational environment.
I know Im probably (also) waaaaay off topic here - but (and Im pretty sure that Sue will concur) I do believe that we need to remind ourselves sometimes that *as adults* our perspective and our concerns may well be worlds apart from the perspective of any given child.
Just a quick comment on "asynchronous development" also .... I am not at all convinced that that is truly *inherant* and the reason I say that is because I am far from convinced that the "mainstream perspective" (including mainstream 'ologies perspectives) are at all emotionally mature - quite the reverse it appears to me to be decidedly emotionally stunted - lacking in real insight or understanding.
It seems to me that emotional maturity and well developed social skills are something that as a society, we work very hard to train OUT of children rather than into them.
I also believe that such a perspective fails to appropriately consider the childs experience - if, as a society, we actually valued and appreciated children we simply would not tolerate the way they are treated by society as a whole. So much of what is done to kids in the name of turning them into "productive citizens" is little more than legalised abuse when it comes to those cast from an irregular mold. We see the proverbial straws and call that emotional "immaturity" when most fully grown, supposedly mature adults I know would not be able to cope nearly so well if subjected to the same measure of stress and distress.
And as for "social skills" ..... I watch those kids that are so often labelled as "lacking and social skills" and it seems to me that their "lack" is actually failure to have the same lack of social skills as everyone else.
Hmmmmmm I wonder if its possible to "hear" a marked increase of electrical activity in your brain? Totally random thought but, the "noise" sounds just the same as electrical currents - like those running through powerlines and electrical appliances if you dont pull them from the wall at night - and the term "ringing in the ears" has bugged me of late because although its functional in the sense of others "being able to relate" - it seems to be highly inaccurate.
Totally random I know but its doing my head in (and Ive got a whole nother night to get through yet).
Anyho.... I did have a point to all this .... and indeed, I am quite sure that if I keep rambling long enough that point will reveal itself amongst the many other points that may or may not be relevant .... ah yes - I thought it might....
I may not be the parent of a PG/EG child, being in the position of trying to navigate the possibility of radical acceleration (even if only a remote possibility that may not even be possible due to lack of , uh shall we say "institutional willingness") but, it doesnt follow that I will not have any experience that will enable me to relate in some way .... and even possibly, it a way that might throw some light in some different area that may not of been previously taken into account ... an area that may even help in some way shape or form - I am of course speaking entirely hypothetically now - it may or may not apply.
Some may well argue that I myself may well fall into the category under discussion myself (hence my ability to relate through my personal experiences ) but the number crunching aspect of assessment says otherwise - and as such, I actually do not consider myself to be in any way "qualified" to respond to specifically PG/EG threads - indeed, the only reason I have is because someone actually directed my attention to this thread.
Certain comments on this thread most definitely gave me cause to consider, very carefully whether I would comment at all - the reason being that "closed belief" that somehow only parents of EG/PG children would understand/relate/believe .... in "real life" I would have actually heeded the "Im not in the least interested in your opinion if you arent the same as me" message that comes across VERY strongly in certain posts.
Now, while it just so happens I am me, I could be any random parent of any GT child - and while I have related to the discussion on the basis of my own personal experiences and thoughts, I could just as easily be some other parent of any GT child relating to the subject based on their own experiences, perceptions and thoughts and, although I have come out with the sort of stuff that I come out with (which may or may not be of much value) - I could be some other random parent of GT children coming out with some profound words of wisdom that are exceptionally valuable to some parents of EG/PG children.
But, if there isnt anything to respond to - because the few parents of EG/PG children have taken themselves off elsewhere to discuss THEIR "issues" etc .... then the chances of that happening will plummet and along with it, the opportunity to build upon that.
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Marshe
Date: 21-03-09 09:51
Hear, Hear Tiz Me .... I always love the way you clarify things.
I must admit I felt a little put out that my own opinions were shot down so quickly, form what I believed to be such a supportive board. I certainly didn't mean to 'minimise' levels of gifteness or the difference between HG/PG/EG children and offend anyone.
I am simply a (non) gifted parent of a child how is 'only' MG, who is not as articulate as others. But you know what I, like Tiz Me above may have had something to offer to this thread - if others weren't so exclusionary.
eg: Sigh's comment
"So... parents of HG+ children should listen to "advice" and "understanding" from others who have no experience of living with HG+?"
How judgemental..... to assume I would have no experience. As a parent maybe as my child is 'only' MG but hey you know what I grew up in a family with TWO - PG older brothers. Man do I have some life experience and memories of what it was like growing up with PG - DOMINATING every aspect of all of our lives (and still having an impact on me today!).
Anyway, I may have had something worthwhile to offer. But I will leave that to those who may really want some support and understanding.
Tiz Me - please keep bringing your 'experiences' here, they are so genuine, and helpful.
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: anon
Date: 21-03-09 10:19
I've moved a radical acceleration post under schooling (or was it parenting), and would love to hear experiences of how parents of EG children have dealt with this issue, or different perspectives on that.
Tiz Me, as I wrote in that post, children need me now so I can't write more, and I'm done with the general theme of this thread but I do want to comment on one thing you said:
"I do believe that we need to remind ourselves sometimes that *as adults* our perspective and our concerns may well be worlds apart from the perspective of any given child."
I agree, something that we need to continually remind ourselves of and I'm glad you posted that.
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: anon
Date: 21-03-09 10:41
Crisis averted...
I just realised how my last comment might appear
"I would love to hear experiences of how parents of EG children have dealt with this issue..."
especially within the themes of this thread.
I'm trying to turn this into a discussion of some EG issues (vs. EG cf. MG) so let me clarify my statement. I'd love to hear from those whose children have been radically accelerated, things that have helped it work, etc. For those of you who have not radically accelerated, what other options have worked... etc. I'll take any other perspectives but would especially love to hear success stories of radical acceleration!
Marshe, I'm interested that you say you are 'non' gifted but had two PG brothers and have gifted children. Is this perhaps one of those cases where you were not identified? There is supposed to be correlation between siblings....
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Tiz Me
Date: 21-03-09 12:51
Snap Anon - actually I went to bed thinking "and I didnt even touch on the whole issue of how many parents here will actually be GT themselves and lo and behold, I get onto the forum today and there is quite a obvious case it point (lol sorry Marshe).
I have actually found the IDEA that other parents "not being able to relate" to the experiences of parents of EG/PG kids quite an interesting one - one actually worth EXPLORING in its own right.
Now in an "ordinary" cross section of society, I can certainly understand how that idea would very likely prove itself to be "true" repeatedly but, this is far from an ordinary cross section - the "concentration of giftedness" will actually be much much higher than in the general population - even though many adults here may not recognise themselves as such.
Thus, you are almost certain to get "gifted divergence" come into play.
Regarding having two PG brothers whose issues dominated family life - its a shame when parents allow the issues of any one or two of their children to dictate life for the rest of the family. It sounds like you would have plenty of life experience and good ideas to share with posters like 'Sigh', if they were wise enough to stick around and hear them....
Good luck with your son finding good friends
Generally...
This is my first post here, and I'm still ignorant about all sorts of issues regarding gifted kids, but surely personality plays some part in their ability to get along with others, whether other gifted kids or the general population? I have one child labelled gifted, (EG in areas)who gets on very well socially, although she tests out as 'higher' in ability than a friend of hers who has many of the social struggles described on these posts. My DD is the youngest in the family though, so maybe she is just the beneficiary of the social 'wisdom' (if you can call it that!) of her older siblings! Another daughter, though, who is not labelled gifted, has struggled with social issues right through primary school. Things are finally settling down for her, yay!!!, but it has been hard yakka watching the pain she's gone through...She had a gifted child in her class last year, who she tried very hard to make friends with, (in her mind they had one or two similar interests) but this child actually said to her that as she wasn't gifted she couldn't play with her! Through my DD's persistence there was finally a bit of a friendship going...in the meantime, this other child would be going on to her mother that she had few friends and that she was being bullied, nobody 'understood' her etc! ....'sigh' :-(
Ning sites have a lot of valuable features.. profiles, groups, discussions, blogs etc... if u go to www.ning.com - then clock on a few of the ning sites listed you can get a feel for what they are like.. there are super easy to set up - and free! (I had one with my previous business www.skouttradefair.com - which I have now sold )
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Ceejay
Date: 12-06-10 20:13
Hi everyone, can I ask some of the basics please?
I'm new to navigating the abbreviations for the different levels of giftedness, and without opinion or judgements, am wondering what the formula is. Fairly sure HG for Highly Gifted, EG for Extremely Gifted, but there seem to be others here and I don't know where they fit/what the deciding percentage score is for each.
We have a son in less than top .05% overall IQ for his age group, which I don't talk about with other parents of Gifted Children incase it looks like a 'mine is bigger than yours' sort of contest. He has some friends who are Gifted, but I don't know where they are on the scale. I also don't talk about the Explorers Club directly because I don't want anyone embarrassed over whether they qualify or not. As a parent of an amazing mind though, I'm trying to understand the specific challenges he faces, and of course strengths he has, so if I know the difference in all of these I can do some research, or even join in your conversation more! For example, once they get over the 99% do they increase in intensities and sensitivies, or does that also depend on the child's personality?
My humble opinion is that our precious children are all so different, and if I can ever help encourage someone who finds themself facing similar parenting challenges, or if I could learn from someone who has been on this journey longer than me, I'd be better off for it
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Anon
Date: 16-06-10 09:48
Ceejay
As you will have seen, the issue over whether to distinguish between levels of giftedness is, on this forum, contentious. On the one hand, we're all here because our children are gifted and share in the challenges and opportunities that accompany giftedness, many are here because our children struggle at school yet these struggles do not get addressed because the children, although perhaps bored, disengaged, bullied, drastically underachieving, are not "failing". And we're here because we need a place where we can write freely about our children without being judged, where others will have children who may have similar quirky natures, present similar parenting challenges etc.
I'm not sure about intensities and sensitivities or even what 'qualifies' as HG. Someone here will know..... However, I have children assessed as EG and it seems to us that the level of giftedness does make a difference. You might want to read the work of Miraca Gross; she writes a lot about this. Just as MG children have different needs when compared with other children, the needs of EG children are different yet again. On a personal level, we are continually frustrated because people (schools for instance) incorrectly assume that what works for most of the gifted children they have dealt with will work for ours. It doesn't. We are met with what you alluded to - people assuming that this is a 'mine's bigger than yours' contest when in reality the needs are just different. Finding like-minds is even harder. The odds of a teacher having met a child at the extreme end of the giftedness scale are of course smaller than the odds of a teacher being experienced with all gifted children. ETC.
Just as it is easy for other parents, teachers, schools to take the approach that 'all children are unique' 'all have strengths and weaknesses' ' all are gifted' 'all have their own challenges' it is also easy for others to assume 'all gifted children have similar challenges' and from that conclude that what works for MG kids works for EG kids.
Please don't ever be apologetic over the 'mine is bigger than yours' issue. Our children are what they are, and if we're going to do the best by them, we need to be able to convey that without fear of offending others.
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Anon2
Date: 16-06-10 18:46
Hi Ceejay
I understand what you are querying, as I was trying to understand the differences myself awhile ago. However it is a difficult question to answer because a lot of the children a tested on different tests. What might be 99.5 percentile on one test may be quite different on another. My ds is also at the 99.5 percentile overall, but scored higher on some things and when I asked the same question, was told that he fits into the "very superior" category. However this is only in relation to the particular test he did. It has no relation that I can figure to the other tests.
I have also been told that children can go WAY higher than the 99.9 percentile!!! It seems that it can depend on the ceiling of the test.
Trying to get this answer seems impossible. I have stuck with just sussing out who my ds is and what he needs.
Re: HG+ issues. Was Re: New forum for parents of highly gifted
Author: Ceejay
Date: 24-06-10 20:27
Hi Anon2
Thanks for that, now I understand that it's because of the different tests. Someone asked me our son's IQ but even after the assessments we've had all I have is the percentage and the 'very superior' term. I'll just join in on these conversations and help out / sponge information wherever I can :)
Hi there, I just tried to join your blog but was denied. Our daughter is nearly 7 and we have just had an assessment to help us understand her better and also help the school guide her placement for year 3. We felt her talents were unusual but the test results have surprised us greatly. She like others like her seem to, writes and speaks a great deal of feeling lonely and we are keen to understand more about how best to support her without 'labelling' her or excluding her from normal society. Would love to join your blog if you will have us! Thanks
