My daughter turning 6 in July has just finished testing with the WPSII and the WIAT.
Her whole life we have figured she was gifted, she showed all the signs, she was speaking in sentences on her first birthday, speaking like a 4 year old at 18months, highly creative, self teacher, doing about year 2 level maths at age 4 (and in testing maths now showed as many years ahead, approx 4 years ahead of age), she has always had an intense curiosity about the world and everything in it. She asked the most obscure questions from when she could talk. Has the most amazing memory I have ever seen, is social, confident and artistic. When she started school her maths was well ahead, her general knowledge on most things was beyond her age level and her reading was coming along nicely. We thought she was gifted and so did everyone who knew her. It's not a big deal, just so many things pointed to her being gifted. She has 2 gifted (exceptionally gifted and highly gifted) siblings and one younger sibling who hasn't yet been tested.
We got the results today via phone call from the psych, will get the full report ia few weeks and she tested in the high average range on the wpsii, she tested as on age level for reading and 4 years ahead in maths. Her processing speed is in the very superior range and I assume everything else in the high average as the psych said she isn't testing in the gifted range.
So my question is, has anyone had this? Is it possible that she is gifted but just didn't test well (doesn't make any difference to us as a family either way)? The psychologist did say that my daughter was reluctant to answer questions she wasn't 100% sure of and that she figured my daughter probably knew it but was afraid of possibly getting them wrong. I am just a little confused over the result, I'm not upset, just kind of confused as to where this places her and if anyone has had this sort of result.
Sorry if this seems a bit off, but I'm just confused about these results and where this places her, if that makes any sense.
Obviously your first step should be to wait for the report, then, speak with the psychologist and see if there is anything else going on. Also do your reading on the tests so that you can read the report being well-informed. I think you will find that this is not uncommon. And perhaps consider another psychologist if the test 'conclusion' (ie a gifted label) is needed for school accommodations. That can be easier said than done though.
FWIW, we have two children assessed as EG several years ago, with the caveat that we may have a conservative estimate there due to testing issues. Last year we spent close to $1000 for an assessment on one child to get a clearer idea, wondering about 2e etc. My child did NOT test well at all; I've dismissed the report and am pretty angry about the wasted money.
I didn't dismiss the report because the 'score' was literally >30 points lower than another psyc had said. I didn't dismiss it because the psyc didn't rave about how clever my child was. No, I dismissed it because she did not 'get' our child at all. I dismissed it because the psychologist appeared to disregard the very low processing speed (caused by perfectionism), and what this could mean, dismissed my concerns about the anxiety due to test-tasking (anxious child, as noted by several others but according to this psyc, not at all anxious), and because of the blatant inconsistencies and literal contradictions in the report. We were also given a list of behavioral optometrists or something like that - with nothing in the report to indicate why we had the list. Primarily, I dismissed it because there was NO discussion of the vastly different 'conclusion' drawn by this and all other indications we've had towards being highly gifted. It was evident to us from the first page of the report that it was a waste of time - when the reasons given for us seeking the assessment were completely misunderstood. Read the report and you'll get an idea of whether the psyc 'gets' your child and giftedness.
Neurotypical or 'normal' children don't speak in full sentences at a year. Et cetera. And with EG and HG siblings ....
Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a rant. Just wanted to share that we have had the same experience. Our kids are highly gifted, I know that. Radically accelerated, working several years above that even. Intense and vastly different to their age peers. I read Miraca Gross - exceptionally gifted children - and yep, that's my kids.
One test that my child hated doing and that yielded an expensive report with contradictions does not change that.
Good luck, I hope you find answers in your report.
Thanks for your response. I still feel that she probably is gifted but now I'd feel like a fraud saying it. I am looking forward to reading the report and hopefully it should shed some light. The psych seemed good and we had a lengthy discussion before testing about my daughter, concerns I had. She seemed to get it and seemed to get my daughter but I'm not sure how much she gets giftedness. We have another appointment with her after we get the report so will be able to ask questions then.
I suppose it is possible she just didn't test well, she has such an amazing way of seeing the world and having other gifted kids I can say that she doesn't seem any different than them really, I definitely didn't think that she would be more than 30 points behind them on the test that's for sure.
I too have read Miraca Gross exceptionally gifted children and when reading it had many 'woah that's so miss 5' moments. The same with my other kids.
Thanks for sharing your story. I am wondering whether it's harder to test a highly creative child using these tests. I shopping at least the report will be helpful in some way otherwise us too will be thinking 'why did we spend $900 on this?!'.
Doesn't the research show that parents are usually right about their giftedness? I'm sure this issue is covered in here on the forums and also on www.hoagiesgifted.org.
Good luck with the psychologist, at least she seems to 'get' your child. Hopefully the report will be useful, either because it offers insights into the lower-than-expected score, or, has such inconsistencies that you have no choice but to dismiss it! (Apparently my child manages to find verbal tasks easier than nonverbal but if I continue reading the report I will see the opposite holds: my child finds nonverbal tasks easier than verbal. Not the only inconsistency ... ).
I wonder if developmental profiling would have offered you a different outcome than an IQ-test?
Not a nice feeling though, is it, to believe something about your child and then be left questioning it and wondering how you got it wrong? We've gone through that in the past with another EG child, one who used to switch off at the drop of a hat and perform poorly, one who has mastered the art of not playing dumb, but, playing 'normal'. But with a change in material/teacher/tester/motivation/environment et cetera - voila, performing like an EG child in tests, and of course, at home displaying all of the intensities and quirks etc.
What helped me at the time was to read Miraca Gross, and other descriptions of gifted and highly gifted children, of childhood development, of spending time with other children - not just highly gifted siblings - to know that yes, we do know our children. It's not about needing 'confirmation' that they're really clever, but it's about feeling secure that you know your child and your child's needs. And trusting your own instincts. When that security comes into question, it's tough.
At the end of the day though, the kids are still the same kids after a test that they were before the test. It sounds as if you have an incredible, creative, curious mind to feed and nurture. Trust your instincts.
Thanks again for your replies, it's been helpful to read that I am not the only one having experienced this. We got some more feedback from the psychologist and have an appointment with her in 2 weeks to get the report and go through it. She did say that miss 5 was answering many math questions that a Year 7 student would struggle with, so it's obvious that maths is one of her strengths.
Testing hasn't and won't change anything at home, I am hoping it might be somewhat useful at school. I am having a tough time trusting my instincts at the moment after I got it so wrong, but miss 5 has been home sick for a week and with spending the days with just her and I am still certain she isn't an ordinary kid, her mind is hungry ALLLL the time and she comes out with the craziest stuff.
I have a 7 year-old boy who is accelerated for Maths at school but is wanting more. Does anyone use a computer programme called Mathletics at home for Maths-hungry kids? Is it expensive? I have a friend from Wellington whose school used it and her kids liked it and a sister-in-law in Aussie who uses it with her Apsergers son. I also have a 10 year-old girl who who is Visual Spatial with moderate levels of anxiety. She can do complex practical problems but struggles with basic facts. Would this programme also be beneficial for her? Any ideas are really welcome.
I think it depends on the child. We tried to use Mathletics but our son does not like repetitions so he did not like it too much (he is 4 years ahead in maths for his age). We found that enrolling him in the Correspondence school in Maths by his school worked much better for him. The work they send him is more varied and he can work at his own speed.
I also wanted to add, regarding the psychologist report that when we assessed our son he scored high (gifted range) only in maths and problem solving. However, now three years later, everyone is commenting on his reading and vocabulary (2 years ahead of his age). So sometimes the other things just catch up. Good luck!
Mathletics has worked well for our children. Our son doesn't liked timed activities so we didn't bother with the live mathletics section of it for a while for him. He enjoyed the rest of the site. It's $100 a year. I think you can pay and if you aren't happy after the trial period they refund your payment.
Try out "mathsbuddy" http://www.mathsbuddy.co.nz/. Our son's school (he is year 9) uses it as an option in some of their classes and he just loves it. The teachers set tasks to be completed, but students and parents have control too and you can move ahead at your pace right up to year 13 maths. There are little videos explaining concepts, but you by pass those. What I like about it is that you have the option of either working online or printing out exercises and worksheets and doing them on paper. Through the school it costs us $30 for a year, but you can take up a family membership too (not sure how much that costs). An ideal program to extend students through their math curriculum.
I have looked into both Mathletics and Maths Buddy. I rejected these as I felt that they were not kinesthetic and my kids need to be able to touch and hold. Both my children (6 and 4) are strongly visual spatial. I use Numicon which is absolutely brilliant and it is very tactile. Although there is an initial outlay for the set I cannot reccommend it highly enough. Visit the Numicon website (Google it) and you can always phone Margi for advice/recommendations - she is very approachable and also runs training sessions for Numicon. Her details are on the Numicon website. Hope this helps.
Not Gifted - you did NOT get it wrong. Trust your instincts. Many gifted kids have testing issues, and do not test well.
I've one child who is accelerated by two years and still ceilings out on tests at school; Stanine 9. Given achievement tests, at age 8 was at NCEA level. Sentences at a year old etc. Earlier in life she has tested as being exceptionally gifted, perhaps even beyond that (ed psyc recognised testing problems holding her back). She has all of the sensitivities, keen perception, empathy beyond her years, morality, perfectionism, ways of viewing the world, that accompanies giftedness. She's "older" than most adults.
The same child once tested as "just" making the gifted cut-off.
You tell me what's more likely: Did a "just" gifted child manage to 'fake' being exceptionally gifted on one test, and manage to 'fake' the correct answers to NCEA level math at age 8, to 'fake' reading comprehension of a 14 yr-old? Does she 'fake' it when everyone who meets her remarks on how 'different' she seems, how 'wise', older. ETC.
OR, is it more likely that there were some issues going on the day she did a test and 'just' made the gifted cut-off ??
Please, do not let one test score lead you to doubt your instincts. Gifted kids do sometimes test poorly. Highly gifted kids sometimes don't test well.
Good luck getting answers, and remember, you KNOW your child.
My son charmed his way through the test but the tester made it clear that while he patently wanted to do well it can't be faked. A reluctant child might do badly but an eager child couldn't do any better than their ability allowed.
My son "scraped through" at 96% and while he's definitely on the nerdy side he wasn't a patch on what you describe your daughter doing.
Any gifted child can have an 'off' day. As stated by Sarah it is very possible for gifted children to score on the low side but impossible to accidentally score in the gifted range. The fact your daughter is a bit of a perfectionist and reluctant to give a wrong answer could have certainly impacted on how she tested.
From the description you give your daughter definitely sounds gifted. I would wait for a few months then have her tested through a psychologist who is experienced in giftedness (ie through the One Day School)...yes more money!
We have 4 sons, 3 of whom have been through the assessment process. Each of them have had 2 assessments each. 1 of my sons scored virtually the same in both assessments whereas the other 2 boys scored differently in their tests (1 son didn't even make the gifted range in his 1st assessment...he is extremely active both physically and mentally and found it very difficult to focus and stay on task).
Our youngest boy is 5 1/2 and we have not had him assessed yet as we know he probably won't test very well. He is very active like our 3rd son so we will wait until after he reaches 6 years of age. We found they all tested better after turning 6...maybe a little maturity helped..?
DO NOT DOUBT YOURSELF. You have 2 other gifted children so you are in a great position to pick out and understand gifted qualities (ie talking in sentences at 1 is not normal behaviour!). If you feel your little girl fits the mold you are most probably correct. She sounds delightfully enthusiastic and curious. Good luck!
My youngest son sounds like a lot like your daughter. He taught himself how to read when he was two and by the time he was four he enjoyed reading my Lipincott's and Wilkins Nursing Guides. The school system is what shook him. We never had heard of the term 'gifted' and becasue he was such a hyperactive children we assumes he was 'faking' it. In my family, smart children were obedient, quite, reserved and wise. My son was the opposite so my husband and I assumed he was dumb and was pretending to be able to read. My memory is not what it used to be but I distinctly recall him speaking at six months. they were short phrases and words but they were what you would expect from a two year old. By the time my son was two, he was arguing with his uncle for 'undermining his authority' (yes, those were my son's exact words). When he was tested, his score was only 132. From my son's developmental history, we were expecting a much higher score but he seems to get fidgety and distracted by lights and the seams on his socks. He is extremely quirky and said that the proctor was not very friendly. When my son feels that he is not understood or that people don't 'get him', he shuts down and withdraws. So yes, it is possible that gifted children may not test well because they pick up 'more' than other children adn even adults. They see the world differently.
My daughter is gifted ...... her 'g' score came out at the 50th percentile to which the Ed Psych commented "To regard X as average is misleading" or words to that affect (was many years ago now).
I had my grandson assessed when he was younger and his strengths (verbal) came out at the 92nd percentile .... it didnt fit with what I know of his development (he was kind of private about what he could do so I was always like 2 steps behind where he was at) - I have just had him reassessed (I had the assessor come to our home so he was in a familiar environment) and his verbal score came out at the 98th percentile.
We havent got the written report yet - just basically confirmed what I was pretty sure was the case - a significant difference between strengths and weaknesses that are very similar to my own.
A child who tests as gifted in any area or areas IS gifted. I have seen children who have scored in the 99.99th percentile and there be no mention of "the g word" in the report whatsoever - only "children who are Aspergers often test strong in this area".
So instead of the children getting accommodation for giftedness they have been treating him as if he has aspergers (I have known him since birth - knew with absolute certainty he is gifted - Aspergers - nah) and are attributing all the negative outcomes to his "being on the spectrum". Who is doing the testing and what their experience/focus of attention is can make a difference also.
With my daughter, she was beside herself, very distressed if she even thought she MIGHT not know the answer and was melting down all over the place - on my grandsons first assessment he told the assessor he was a pterodactyl and pterodactyls dont answer questions! at one point.
This time around with my grandson I had told him that it was just an assessment to learn more about the way he thinks to see if he would be a good fit for ODS because the way they teach at ODS doesnt suit everyones way of thinking and learning. He LIKED that idea!
I dont know what his full scale score is yet but I am expecting it will likely be below the 95th percentile ..... a person can be very gifted and still test below the 95th percentile for all sorts of reasons.
My money would be on your intuition - that your daughter is gifted.
Hi all, thank you for all your responses and stories. I met with the psychologist a few weeks ago and received the full report and she went through it with me. I thought I would update on this thread.
Basically, the psychologist probably lacks knowledge in the area of giftedness (despite mentioning this as one of her main interests)...the report has many inconsistencies and even basic information which was collected has been reported wrong, such as dd's name, age, siblings, when she started school and developmental milestones which were all mentioned in the report. On reading all the errors I was very angry, I had a whole appointment with her before testing going through all these details and she looked as though she took very thorough notes. This is not the only issue I have with the report and if I didn't need parts of it for the school I would have tossed it in the bin straight away.
Despite all these issues with the report, it has been helpful in the one area where my daughter needed help. The report covered her strengths and weaknesses with reading which her teacher has found very helpful and since getting the report miss5 has been getting some extra support at school for reading focussing mainly on her weak areas, she has jumped so many reading levels in this time (a few weeks) and has gone from struggling to read a simple book to reading independently, she is reading non fiction, chapter books, picture books...whatever she can get her hands on. The speed in which she has shot up with her reading is incredible. I am SOOOO proud of her! So the report wasn't completely useless, without it the school wouldnt have known what they needed to work on.