I have just found out that my child, aged 8, is doing an aerobics type programme at school called Jump Jam.
Great, I really don't have a problem with the kids getting exercise at school. I love exercise.
The problem I have is the music they are using.
Do any of you know the song "Who Let The Dogs Out"?
I was horrified when my son came home singing it. It sounds very negative and aggressive and just YUK. It turns out they do Jump Jam to this song. I was talking to my partner about it, and he told me what the words mean. I am really naive. I didn't beleive him when he said that it was about picking up women for sex and that the term dog refers to women.
So I got the words off the net, and was really unimpressed. I have since sounded out some people in our community, that I thought were about as naive as me, and they all knew what the song is about.
I am really upset that the school did not vette the songs more carefully, and that they obviously haven't thought about the meaning behind the words of the songs they are playing the kids.
I am going to approach the school, but am struggling with the idea at the moment, mainly because the Principal is known for his terrible attitude towards women, and I want to have my 'argument' clear.
What do other people think of this? Am I over-reacting, over-protective? I just think that there are already so many negative images and attitudes towards women in our society as it is that are difficult to avoid, and I don't want my children being subjected to any more of them through school. Schools have such a significant role and influence in their lives. If they are getting degrading messages about women at primary school, where is that going to lead them? We will have plenty of time ahead of us to deal with all those music, attitude issues when they are teenagers.
I have to say, I do think you are over reacting to this! I know the song well, my kids and I have been known to run around the house singing the chorus (Who let the dogs out - oof oof oof) at the top of our voices! I can't say I know what the words to this song are as I've never really been able to decipher what is being sung! It is sung quite quickly and with an accent. I know that in my children's case (and in the other kids I know) it's the chorus that get's their attention because they're pretending to be dogs! And THAT as far as I'm concerned, is harmless fun!
Even if your son knows all the words, it doesn't mean that he understands them, or interprets them as an adult would. A lot of the time kids just recite what is heard without fully understanding it.
As my husband said, if that's the worst your kids are exposed to at school, be very, very thankful!
As the mother of an almost 16 year old who has no idea why its not a good idea to dress like a little tramp, "shake her bootie" and sing songs with distasteful words - I do NOT think you are over-reacting at all.
She signed up for Joseph and its amazing the difference the music she is currently being exposed to makes to our household in general. Theres no way Im going to be encouraging music with bass that gives a thumping headache, has agressive messaging and has "f" this and "b" that in every second line (and the message is in my opinion just as important) - and that sets us up for conflict because of the "everyone elses parents let them" or "its allowed at school" scenario.
But, with good clean wholesome music we can both sing along to - well its a very different story - at the moment I get to encourage my child in something she very much enjoys.
School should be a place that is free of any of that sort of messaging as far as I am concerned - regardless of not using foul language - if it isnt IMO it is undermining any decent standards in attitudes the parents are attempting to instill ..... kids do not need to understand the message to be influenced by it - infact, in many ways its easier to influence people when the message is more obscure - making it all the more incidious.
I never knew this song was about women. In the music video they have actual dogs running around "being let out" or straining against leashes! I always thought it was a harmless song about dogs!! If the music video that goes WITH the song is anything to go by, this would be the case. How can it be interpreted any other way? I have never seen the actual words though but I will be looking them up now!!!!
For the record I agree with you. I wouldn't be so naive to think that the kids don’t know what this means. In my experience children know a lot more about street language then we do. If they don't know now they will in the future, and will know that you condoned it and what does that say about your family values. The school should respect your family’s values on something like this.
Hmmmmmm, this could turn into quite a debate!! lol I'm with Rebecca though. It's a big bad wide world out there and they can't be wrapped in cotton wool their whole lives. To me, the song is about dogs and is a bit of fun. It is even sung in 'Shrek' . My 7 year old thinks it's about dogs. We joke about it with my mother in law's tiny dog because if he gets out of the house he runs down the road, so then we are all like "Who let the dog out?? Ooof oof oof!!!" I hope I'll bring him up to respect women (in this case) enough not to let a song sway him you know?
Janie, you have a concern, i would raise it with the school. If you are uncomfortable with the words, tell them. They probably havent considered the actual wording.
Rebecca, your comment about kids knowing the words but not understanding them is surprising. If we can assume that Janies child is a g/t child then it follows that it is reasonable to assume that the kid is capable of understanding the meaning of the words. I dont think that you can disregard a childs ability to understand an adult concept because he/she is 8.
Actually Elaine, I know some of the words and like Giselle and xxxx did think - perhaps naively - that the song was about dogs - especially after viewing the video.
I doubt my children would know that 'dog' refers to a woman and like Giselle would hope that their maturity and the morals they learn at home would let them enjoy the song without taking away anything more than an appreciation of the beat and catchy chorus.
Also, just because we are assuming that a child is gt, we shouldn't also assume that the same child is mature enough mentally (that is completely different from intelligence and IQ etc) to understand references and terms that he or she has not necessarily heard before.
I do agree that if something is bothering someone enough to query it in depth, that it should be followed up, however in my opinion there are far worse songs and lyrics available to anyone with a radio/mobile and or internet service than 'Who let the dogs out'.
Each to their own - we are all entitled to our own opinions and thoughts, and after all, that is exactly what Janie has asked for - everyone's opinions on this matter!
PS Chugga, I really don't think you can compare a 16yr old girl and an 8yr old boy!
I don't think you are over-reacting - if music had ratings the same as movies then I reckon most of the music that is played on the radio, at school exercise time etc would rate as 'M'. Schools wouldn't play M-rated movies to primary kids so when you think about it they shouldn't play music like that either.
On the other hand, if you allow (not saying you do - it's just an example) your kids to watch some of the cartoons that are on tv at the moment, the ads on tv in the afternoon and evening and have Shortland Street on in the background then exercising to "Who Let the Dog's Out" is pretty minor!
As for the comment about the big bad wide world though - just because our society isn't that great morally doesn't mean our kids need to be exposed to it while they are still kids.
I would bring up how you feel to the school. Even if nothing seems to get done about it, it will probably cause them to think about the issue when choosing songs for other things like school singing etc.
With all due respect Rebecca, I was commenting from the perspective of a parent who has a child who was once an 8 year old child and has been exposed to and conditioned to believing that if its "music" it is both harmless and acceptable.
As one who has been there done that, I can look back and see a great many things I saw "no harm" in because I didnt have the benefit of hindsight and experience to work with.
The old "if I knew then what I know now" scenario - and on that basis I would have nipped it in the bud very early.
my dd has just moved to a new primary school, and was excitedly telling dad about Jump Jam. I said hey! i was just talking about that today. What songs do they play. She told me and i said do they have 'who let the dogs out' and she said no but they had that at her previous school. I asked her what it was about and she said.......wait for it......its about ugly women.
hahaha!! Really????? Sorry for laughing but it's kinda funny! Sadly, there are soo many songs out there like this............... how on earth can we shelter our kids from them? Especially if they go to school? remember that awful song those teenage girls sang a few years back called "You ugly??" ICK! But I mean, these things ARE out there and there's no way we can stop our kids from listening to them forever so I guess the best thing we can do as parents is to make it clear to them that they are just rubbish songs, and that beauty is only skin deep etc etc etc. I mean, when I was a teen I used to listen to things like "Cop killer" and songs like that. But I was brought up to respect the police and didn't analyse the words too much you know? Plus I used to watch tv programmes like Falcon Crest and Dynasty with my mum from the age of 9 or so........... and I turned out ok:)
There's so much wonderful music out there to enjoy with our children - I wonder why a program that is specifically designed for children would choose to use that song... I agree with Chugga about Joseph the musical - we have it on DVD and it is so much fun, lots of styles of song including Elvis and a French number - we love it. M also loves Cats, The Wizard of Oz, Singin' in the Rain... I guess having a variety is best, but Janie's concern seems fair enough to me - it would worry me too. I highly reccommend Julie Wylie's cd's - she is based in Christchurch and has done a lot of wonderful work with children and music and how music can really play a huge part in learning. I wonder what other songs they used in Jump Jam - some gentle, calming songs as well as frenetic? I hope so.
Read this thread with interest and not in exactly the same vein, but nevertheless in the same way in which society is going and what and how much we can shield our children from ... it incensed me to be walking in our local shopping mall and come face to face with a woman in a larger than life poster with nothing on, save for being covered in olives in just the right places!!!
My son, then says to me, "Look Mummy that lady's got no clothes on." Are our children just going to get used to seeing this kind of thing and accept it as part of of society or what are the long term ramifications? I personally have an issue with scantily clad women being used to sell a product as much as I have an issue with children getting used to bad language and dissing someone in a song.
We can't wrap them in cotton wool, but we can steer them in the right directions and educate them about the rights and wrongs. I also have an issue with advertising to kids and it's one of the things my husband and I do, when ads are on at home, we talk to our son through the ad, saying how the company that sells that product is trying to get us to buy that thing and trying to make it sound like we need it.
It's an interesting point you have made Janie and good on you for addressing it with the school.
Janie, I know I'm coming in late here but I support you in going to the school. You should always open to discussion anything you are morally unsure of.
I am a very old-fashioned mother. I don't believe in exposing my young child to racist or sexist or just plain violent music, nor cartoons that are in a similar vein, nor the modern attitudes of so many children that seem really cynical and bitter to me. Its not that hard to shelter and protect a child (and I think shelter and protection are good things). And when you can't, then talk openly to them as Caroline suggests.
As a consequence of my prudish attitude, I have a child who is considered "immature" in the way that she plays with other children, but I don't mind. She has years to become used to the dehumanising of women, I would rather she did so from the foundation of an upbringing where she had been "wrapped in cotton wool" and exposed to beauty and respect, and so was stronger and wiser in dealing with things that are ugly and cruel. (I'm not religious, by the way, but I am much in favour of the Steiner methods of raising children.)
I agree with Chugga. Its about subtle conditioning over the years. Denim mini skirts for three year olds, Bratz dolls and other toys extolling street culture, foul songs to jump around to, it all just builds up their tolerance to the "bad influences" in society today. I want my child to be intolerant to them.
To me its also not just about the lyrics of the music. Its about the aggressive beat, the discordance, the damage it does to the water in our cells and so our general physical and mental health. I'm not against rock and roll, I love it, some of it is absolute genius, but so much out there is just nasty trash.
I totally respect everyone's opinions, and I can see where each and everyone here is coming from. The thing that worries me about 'wrapping in cotton wool' is that my sister (whose girls went to Steiner schools and were raised in 'cotton wool') totally went out of control once they were 16 or so and started hanging out with peers. Drugs, staying out all night, lying.... my sister (one of the loveliest and gentlest people in the world) has lost control of both of them:( :( One of them (aged 17) came and stayed with me for the weekend a few months ago because she thought she couldn't stand living with her mum anymore:( She was so incredibly naive about life, and found an advertisement in the Herald saying that she could earn $1500 part time for massaging!!! Sheeesh! She was so excited about earning so much money and asked me if I thought she should phone them!!! She couldn't believe it when I told her that she wouldn't be ONLY massaging:( :( She also ended up going out with a girlfriend another time, who in turn got them into a car with some guy who took them to the other side of Auckland, left them and took my nieces handbag! The Police brought her home to her mortified mother. Sadly I see this innocent girl making some potentially dangerous decisions because she just has no idea what the real world can be like:(
I also remember that two of my best friends (who both had very religious parents and were also wrapped in cotton wool - as we seem to be calling it, lol) did similar things when we were teens. In fact, they both went out of their ways to do the opposite of what their parents wanted once they had the freedom and know-how to do so. Both of them now (we are all 30 years old) are still doing drugs parttime and neither have settled down at all:( I pretty much have nothing to do with them now because of the way they live. It is really sad. My relationship with my mum was very open and I guess you could say that I was/am pretty street-wise. I've never fallen prey to anyone or done bad things like smoking or drugs or lying to my Mum, because I guess none of it was new or exciting to me.
I'm certainly not saying that this is how it turns out with all children, but it is another thought for you to ponder, and I wish you the best with what you decide to do:) :)
Hmmmm I have an equally "not been wrapped in cotton wool" daughter being lured towards drugs, who thinks there isnt such a thing as "bad" people - they are all just misunderstood and need a good friend who listens - gets ripped off and generally used and abused by people.
She can certainly "talk da lingo" but the reality is that those people are so outside of her "peer" group that the only way she is ever going to fit in is to cloud her own mind with drugs.
But when "mainstream society" rejects you repeatedly because you dont conform to the norms of the majority no matter how hard you try - well somehow the allure of spending your life with that reality being clouded by drugs and being used by people who at least pretend to accept you seems very inviting indeed.
I hardly consider it "wrapping them up in cotton wool" for authority figures and adult role models - which is what teachers are just as much as parents - to refrain from exposing children to crass, trashy attitudes and condone them "bopping along to the rythm" of songs that preach violence and denigration.
Values and attitudes, just like math and writing, tend to become ingrained naturally with repetition - if we "talk" one set of moral values but encourage the "singing along with" a completely different set then we are setting our kids up for moral conflict they MIGHT resolve as we would hope or might not - it is in my opinion a contradiction they do not need coming from authority figures and adult role models.
Tonight, I finally managed to convince my daughter that "The song of the king" is really "COOL" - she is resisant to anything new - but, after first describing the "airs and graces and ceremony" that surrounds a Pharroh to her - then telling her "watch this" and have someone walk in the front door as her 36 year old mother does the ole rubber band legged , hip thrusting high-collared Elvis/Pharroh impression - the kids almost wetting herself laughing and up on her feet singing along and joining right on in .... now shes off to a neighbours to show them her new "act".
Heck - who knows, maybe if we spend more time encouraging fully clothed, non-agressive, non-sexual/ non-sexy , non-denigrating FOOLISHNESS maybe kids wouldnt NEED to be so "streetwise" (or at least act as if they are) and wouldnt need to be watching their backs all the time the moment they step out the door.
The "I turned out ok" is a fallicy arguement - my mother didnt buy groceries because she ate at work, she thought it amusing to send her kids out to play in a cemetary as it was getting dark, would wake us up to perform infront of drunken strangers at ungodly hours and lied through her teeth - and I turned out to be a caring honest person .... does it follow that would should encourage parents to be more like her? Of course not!
One of my younger brothers (same age as my DD) has lived a very sheltered life indeed (second chance father) - he is not at all "street wise" and when people compare him with my DD they see her as being "light years ahead" of him .... I beg to differ - DD has been too busy trying to "be all grown up" to actually mature and while she is walking around trying to act all grown up and mature - my brother is just being a kid and quite comfortable doing so thank you kindly. I would consider him lightyears ahead of DD in the emotional maturity stakes - but then, emotional maturity does tend to develop better is a safe wholesome (not oppressive and stifling) environment with consistant boundaries.
I totally agree with you Sarah and would not call your approach to parenting "old-fashioned" or "prudish" at all. I also cringe when I see some of the "toys" and clothes being marketed at little girls and have to admit to sometimes being grateful I've got a boy for these reasons - there's not as much pressure on him to grow up while he's still a child (sad isn't it?). A lot of the stuff kids are bombarded with as part of "normal" modern childhood just seem unnatural and unhealthy to me. Good on you Janie - and others - for sticking up for your parenting rights.
Giselle, I had to laugh at one example you used. No offense! But you could certainly not say I had a childhood wrapped in cotton wool. Infact I was exposed to all kinds of horrendous things. And yet at 17 I saw an ad for a job in a massage parlour and thought it would be great! (I needed a job in a hurry, I had just been literally kicked out of home.) I had no idea what it really meant.
The thing is, living a tough childhood does not strengthen you against the dangers of the adult world. If a child is not adequately protected, her/his inner substance will not developed strength, self-belief, etc. If you like, the bones of her soul will be brittle. Also, s/he will accept bad things as normal. So will be actually *more* vulnerable than a sheltered child. I saw this so often in my work with domestic violence victims, prostitutes, etc. They don't expect anything but violence, trash, sexualisation, dehumanisation from their lives.
Imagine if we raised our children to believe that songs advocating harm to other people were unacceptable; that people should love and respect others; that everyone should speak with dignity; that little girls did not have to be sexually attractive to be popular; that hitting other people was not funny; that blowing up buildings was not an acceptable theme for a movie ... imagine the kind of lovely world we might create.
What I would say about your neices is that, when they turned 13 or so, someone should have started introducing them to the perils of life. Not via experience, but by discussing them openly and preparing them for the dangers they might meet now that they are older. And giving them the self-esteem and sense of personal dignity to rise above all of that and stay true to themselves. That's appropriate.
QUOTE : "I had no idea what it really meant." Ooops! SOrry!!!! *blush* lol
I guess what I am trying to raise is well balanced kids. Not trying to expose them to every danger and hardship in the world, but also not trying to shelter them from everything too you know what I mean?? A very hard thing to do nowadays I think!!! Especially if they attend school.
Anyway, I don't think this is meant to be an argument, just a mother looking for different opinions which she certainly has, right janie??? lol So have you spoken to the school yet? I wonder if they would even stop Jump jamming to it if they had complaints from parents?!? Looking forward to seeing what they say/do.
After this thread and considering all the issues it has raised, I asked my daughter what music they use in her jump jam!
Very pleased to report there is nothing more sinister used than 'Ooh ee, walla walla bing bang' - you know the one? I asked her if they use 'Who let the dogs out' and she said no. According to my daughter the song is used in both 'Garfield' and 'Cats and Dogs' movies - hence she equates the song only to dogs!
As far as the wrapping in cotton wool etc goes - really, what I think it basically comes down to is the individual.
We're either gonna get ourselves into trouble or not and I honestly think it has very little to do with parenting! Too often are parents blamed for the way their little darlings turn out - now don't take me literally there because I do realise that there are a lot of crap parents out there and their kids end up in trouble because of that crap parenting. However, I had wonderful parents and I still went out of my way to be trouble from about 13! Luckily the morals they had instilled in me did kick in, so I calmed down towards 20 and now you'd never know I had a 'chequered past'!!!! <grin>
All in all, I think each to their own. I do agree that if something doesn't sit right with you, that you should follow it up! You have to do what is right for you and your family and thankfully as yet in NZ, we don't all have to follow the same rules!
Wow, some wonderfully interesting conversations here. I too am viewed by some as old fashioned and prudish. I hate seeing all the sexualised images of women - can't even go to our Post Shop without being confronted by it. We have a family policy of using only retailers that are pornography free where-ever possible. That is really challenging in this day and age.
I must recall an incident with my son when he was about 4. We were walking up the street one day, and there was image after image of women scantily clad - underwear shops, books shops, hair dressers, chemists, and it went on and on. I must say here that we didn't go in to any of these places, these images were all in shop windows. He didn't bat an eyelid at any of this. Then we went into our chemist, and there was a photo advertsing male perfume on the counter. The man was well-muscled, and had a cloth drapped discretely across his genital area. My son was shocked. He walked up to it, he walked away from it, he walked back up. He tried to touch it, and so forth. He was just not used to seeing men portrayed like this.
We talk alot at home about respectful behaviour towards others - in our own family, our neighbourhood and globally. We do not have TV and yet he still picks up on the negative attitudes that are portrayed through the other kids at school. It is challenging to find a balance about being realistic about the world we live in and teaching them respect etc. I don't want to draw his attention to all this disrespectful stuff out there, but I don't want him to think that we are condoning it either, by our inaction in situations where we can take action.
I am in the process of addressing the Jump Jam thing with the school. We are doing it in writing, because the Principal has a history of saying one thing and doing another. Hopefully will have the letter to him tomorrow. He is usually prompt at responding to things so will keep you all informed.
After reading this very interesting thread I happened to be talking to my sister who is working on the Men B vaccinations and she commented how all the children seemed to be doing aerobics at the schools they visited. So I asked her what music they used and she said "Who let the dogs out?" so I guess it all comes as a package.
Just out of interest I asked my husband what that song was about and he said "Dogs, of course". 6 year old daughter said it is just about dogs and she apparently knows everything!
The Jump Jam music is purchased as set packages with teaching instructions, to all NZ schools who are participating in the programme.
If your child's school is a participant then one of the packages will contain 'Who Let the Dogs Out'- it was in our school in 2003.
As I thought the Prinicpal was not too receptive to our letter. He said he had listened to the words and thought it was fine.
Whether the song is sexually disparaging of women or not, I don't really want my child being 'taught' at school that it is OK to refer to people (and the song indicates that it is a woman being spoken to) as "flea infested monger/mongrels". Whether it is monger or mongrel depends on where you get the words.
I imagine if my son went around calling his class mates flea infested mongers/mongrels that the teachers/principal would probably have a bit of a problem with it.
Have just finished reading all the latest messages - I am so pleased that there are other people out there that think as strongly as me about these sorts of things. THere are so many other mums who don't blink an eye at dressing their 3yr olds in clothes that I wouldn't let my teenager wear! And as for the advertising - has anyone noticed that it has gotten far worse in the last couple of months ... it seems that every second bus in Auckland at the moment has a naked woman plastered across the back - how on earth can the advertising authorities justify preschoolers sitting in cars and children walking to school being exposed to this over and over again!
In terms of the 'cotton-wool' argument - you can liken it to growing a plant in a greenhouse - and this makes for a good reply to anyone who thinks you are being too protective ...
It's a conversation between two dads from a novel (The Eleventh Hour) and it's about how one of the dads has protected his daughter from a lot of the unpleasantness of the world and the other dad is asking how she is going to cope (it's set in Germany in the mid 1930s - just before WW2).
"How are you preparing your daughter for a world that is not pleasant? All this here - it seems too perfect, too serene, too idyllic. Don't you fear that perhaps your daughter will be ill equipped to cope because she has been so completely protected from the harshness and cruelties of life?"
The other dad answers :
"Nurturing a tender young plant in a greehouse early in it's life, and then exposing it to the harsh winds and frosts of winter could kill it. On the other hand, if the years of it's life are such that it's roots go deep and it;s stalk and trunk and branches grow strong and vital, then it becomes a plant of such virility that it will flourish under any adverse circumstances. So the greenhouse yields two very different possiblities of results.
Likewise, imagine a tree having grown from a seedling high on the slopes of a rugged, rocky mountain where all nature did her best to destroy it. If that tree survives, it will indeed be tough and sinewy and hardy, able to withstand most anything. Yet most such seedlings die on those fierce slopes before reaching maturity. Those that do survive are usually dwarfed and deformed and never shaped and fruitful as they might have been had they spent their early years in a more protected environment."
Anyway, have been far too long looking that up and typing it out.
Janie - the idea of sending the letter to the BOT is a good one - they will hopefully take more notice than your Principal seemed to.
I agree. I was one of those raised in an environment, exposed to all sorts of stuff no kid should be. I made pretty bad choices as a teen, had no sense of boundaries, for myself or others. Suffered post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, among other things.
After a few years of counselling, life is better, my sense of self is better. One almost needs to return to the "greenhouse" again, in order to enter the world and be able to see the good, rather than just the despair, hate and hurt.
I think children need to be raised in beauty, goodness, wholesomeness, kindness and love, in order to see that in the world, otherwise they are conditioned to see whatever they are exposed to early on. I also think they are conditioned to behave and act in such ways as to what they are exposed to early on, to variable extents depending on exposure of course.
I don't think it's something to get overly paranoid about, but definitly something to be mindful of. I have seen the results in adults. And each parent (usually) knows their child best, how sensitive they are, and whats okay and not.
Have your rung the bus company. I am fed up with this sort of rubbish in our society and the messages it is giving our children. I speak out now. I make phone calls and/or approach people in person. It is interesting to hear the very people who instigate some of these messages stuttering and spluttering some sort of explanation for their actions, and often admitting that it is probably not healthy for our children to be exposed to this sort of thing. But things are getting worse, and if we as parents don't speak out, it will continue to get worse. Personally, I think it is really important to have men speaking out about it as well as women.
Have any of you watched the dance? If you have you will see this whole thing is kind of funny. I couldn't help but laugh when i saw 20+ kids (boys and girls) acting out "dog moves" to a song. I happened to volunteer at my child's school on a day that they were first teaching "who let the dogs out" They love it as a dance and nothing more. I can tell you that as far as I can tell it is just in fun at the primary levels.
If your child knows the "real" content it is from what they have heard elsewhere and chances are they are learning a lot more than the "hidden meaning" behind who let the dogs out.
I agree with both sides but I also think that if you make too big a deal out of anything it actually just draws more attention to an issue that normally a child wouldn't even think twice about. Teach good values to your children; teach them how to treat others and what is appropriate. I admit I don't let my children watch a lot of tv or play video games do to content but I also don't make a tada everything. You can't shelter them from everything or they will go on a free for all later on. My daughter views this song as an exercise activity which is fine by me.
I am more concerned with how for a while I would have to remind her not to swear because she hears it so frequently at school that from time to time a swear will just come out of her cute little SIX-year old mouth. I just told her why we don't swear and when she did she got a gentle reminder and we moved on. Last of all, children learn best by example. Your son will most likely treat women how he has seen your husband treat you and not because of a song he heard when he was 8. If that song has that much influence over your child then your worries are well-founded.
I am sure if you just let the teacher know the teacher will think of an alternative activity during that hour for your child to do. There is a fine balance between teaching your children certain values and embarrassing them in front of their peers. Things not done tactfully only make you look like a crazy person with no credibility even if you are in the right. Good on you though for looking out for the best interest of your child-too many parents have become too complacent.
It is a sad world we live in when a child can't enjoy a bit of fun. Our children at our school jump around have fun and enjoy JJ. Frankly with all that goes on in the world today and what many parents allow their children to watch on TV to react to JJ in such a way is frankly idiotic.
Growing up how many of us watched Road Runner? How many times did we see old Cyote get hit by a truck, blowen up etc and laughed? Yes some of the songs could be interpreted by danger seaking politicaly corret parents as questionable, but when parents stop singing children rhymes about babies falling out of trees and the Black Death then maybe I'll raise an eyebrow to the "evils" of JJ.
The kids take the songs and make them their own and turn them into fun, get over yourselves. It is because of narow minded Politicaly Correct people that in some schools you can't climbs trees run on the field or have a good shout with your friends at lunchtime in case you get a bruise.
Parents need to stop wrapping their kids in bubble wrap and let the poor buggers be kids, otherwise they enter the real world ill prepared and go off the deep end, because they have no REAL perspective becasue they have been protected all their lives. You can always pick the kids who are protected and sheltered because they are the ones that can't deal with school/problems as an indivdual. They are the ones who can't make choices for themselves. Leave JJ alone, surely the poor kids can have something without bloody adults trying to sanatise it all the time.
yes, I get where you're coming from and I do happen to agree that this particular concern about JJ is a storm in a tea cup.
However, you do seem to talk about picking the kids who are 'protected and sheltered' in a rather derogatory tone. It is our duty as parents to protect and shelter our children because afterall - they are just that - children, and if they can't depend on us (or their teachers) to keep them safe, then who can they depend on? Anything less than this would be neglect, and more than likely the world would be a better place if all parents looked after their children with such care.
My guess is that you do not have children and one day when you do you will come to understand the importance of sheltering and protecting our children - they are our future and we don't want to harden their minds or hearts any more than we can avoid.
As a teacher it is your job to see each child as an individual and respect the child/families individual beliefs/culture.
Maybe your values are not very high and what is acceptable to you may be very different to some parents of children you care for. You as a teacher must realise that every child comes from a different family with different values and principles and you need to respect that. Yes I will admit that there are many parents out there who don’t care about what their children are exposed to, using the excuse that they will be exposed to it when they grow up. So they let their children be brought up in this type of environment (swearing, violence etc). They grow up believing that this is normal and ok, when it isn’t. Yes children will be exposed to all sorts of things, so when on a few occasions they are, they need a responsible adult available to discuses it. If a child goes to school then during the day that adults is the teacher. It is shocking that there are teachers like you with your attitude teaching.
Ok, you are probably right about Jump Jam. But are you saying that when you get a shy or "different" child in your class you immediately make a judgement about the parents? Or if the child is having trouble settling in etc? Surely as a teacher you must have an open and non-judgemental attitude towards not only your pupils but their families as well.
YIKES!!!! Let's calm down folks! I don't think people should be judging others on this topic! It's only a song (my 7 year old thinks is about dogs...) for heavens sakes! It's not as though anyone here is saying that they want their kids to start drinking or smoking! Sheeesh!!
Let's let sleeping 'dogs' lie and respect each others' opinions and let our kids get on with life! Far too much is being read into this I think. We are ALL good parents otherwise we wouldn't care about our kids enough to even post in a forum about them!
To each their own, I'm sure we all want the best for our children, and fingers crossed that all our kids will turn out happy and well adjusted in life in spite of all the horrors this world of ours has to offer:) :) Life is just too short....................
I agree with Giselle too - we all want the best for our kids; that is why we spend all this time discussing these issues! I am sorry if I caused any offence, maybe my post came across more confrontational than I meant it to. I was specifically responding to the following comments:
"You can always pick the kids who are protected and sheltered because they are the ones that can't deal with school/problems as an indivdual. They are the ones who can't make choices for themselves."
As the mother of a possibly gifted little boy who has had a lot of issues settling in at school, I admit these comments worried me a bit. That's all.
To the teacher who talked about children wrapped in bubble wrap, and how they are your children to guide and protect when you have them - this is yet another reason why I don't send my child to school. Because you are entitled to have your beliefs, and your ways of seeing things (which may include swearing and disrespect for others' values) and that's fine. But I have my beliefs, and I don't want them trashed or possibly sabotaged by my child's teacher. They are *not* your children to guide as you see fit.
However, I must add a huge thank you to all the hundreds of teachers who do educate and support children every day in a way appropriate to their role, and especially who are there for those children whose parents can not properly advise or even feed them.
Just to add, I wrote my post because I "took exception" to "A Teacher"'s post, and I don't think I will be the only one who found it both negative and offensive. I'd rather be overprotective than "underprotective", myself.
From an annoying, PC, Interfering Parent.
ok. I wasn't going to comment on this cos to be honest I thought the whole thing was a storm in a teacup. HOWEVER, I will say the following:
as a parent and as a teacher it does concern me to see all the risk being taken out of playgrounds and life in general for children for the following reasons:
if children don't get the opportunity to experience the consequences of their actions (in a controlled environment) there is a strong likelihood that they make end up taking foolish risks thinking that nothing bad will happen
if children do not grow up in an environment which challenges them in some ways, i think they are less likely to take risks in other areas (e.g. learning new and challenging things which stretch them and require a mental/emotional leap)
BUT, that doesn't mean they should be allowed to view tv unmonitored, or exposed to violent video games, or really nasty stuff. I was totally disturbed last year to teach a 5 year old whose regular after-school/weekend leisure activity was playing something called Lethal Force (or something similar, can't quite remember it) on his X-box. This frankly concerns me far more than nursery rhymes, or the Dog song which I honestly didn't realise was surposed to be so pejorative. Actually, i had to go and look up the lyrics on the internet because when I listened to it i couldn't really make them out except for the famous chorus. Even when I read them I wondered what I was missing. Not to say that the original postee wasn't genuine in her concern, but I think really that we have to choose our battles, and I don't think this is the right one.
To a Teacher, while I agree with your sentiments, I think perhaps you didn't intend to come across quite in the way you did. It is very difficult not to pass judgement on the parenting of the children we have in our care. I have taught children whose mothers were prostitutes, on drugs, had serial boyfriends, and openly lived lifestyles that are abhorent to me as a parent let alone a teacher. children who were sent to school with a 15 cent packet of instant noodles as their only food for the day, or a very large packet of chippies loaded with salt and nasty chemicals and fizzy drink, children who always came to school on Manic Monday (as we called it) after a weekend of late nights and (possibly) limited supervision and irregular meals (cos it's the weekend right?) who by Wednesday might be starting to settle in to the routine of school, and by Friday were humming along nicely at school, but would lose it again by the following Monday. After the holidays it always took at least 2 weeks to settle them again. Kindness Day was an invention in our region where we were supposed to focus on kindess for a whole day and discuss it with the children. After the first few times I found it so upsetting because this kind of discussion led to childrne disclosing domestic violence in ways that were soul destroying. THis was a decile 4 school - and hardly a severely deprived community. But a community where children had such limited experiences with their families that story writing usually incorporated the major vocab words "The Warehouse" and "McDonalds" and that was about it.
I guess I'm just trying to say, let's not get our knickers in a twist about something that honestly seems pretty innocuous and has good intentions (to get children exercising instead of becoming statistics in the obesity epidemic). And it's a shame to see people knocking others for their concern.
Hmm interesting reading. I never even thought this song was anything else than about dogs and I have never seen the video. My five year old does jump jam and also knows the song from the movie Shrek. I would be very surprised to find any primary age child who would actually tell you the song was about 'picking up women' if I said that to my daughter she would think I meant collecting a lady from somewhere in my car.
Just a question to the lady whose son was shocked to see a man in a perfume ad with a towel around him, has your son ever been exposed to what I feel is a natural occurence ie. a naked person? If your son has this response to a cardboard picture can you imagine what he will do when he has to get changed for swimming at school? Probably feel very scared and overreat and therefore be treated as if he is 'different'. Have you considered his feelings should this occur? He is likely to feel isolated and 'abnormal'. Just a thought - I respect your views also.
Some parents need to relax a little - having come back after ten years in Europe I feel that this country has gone overboard with 'PC correctness' - I do not think that young primary age children jumping around and getting some exercise to a song that they do not even understand does them any harm - it will be interesting to see how the children who are wrapped in cotton wool turn out in five/ ten/twenty years time...lets come back here then and see how they have all turned out? Insecure and naive are just two words that spring to mind - I feel that most of these children do 'rebel' when they get the chance - though everything in moderation - I do not agree with children being exposed to ridiculous cartoons or violent games or movies - my daughter only watches musicals or classic Disney movies and loves these.
By the way, what does a '3 year old wearing a denim skirt' mean? Is this insinuating that it wrong for a 3 year old to wear a denim skirt?. I do not understand this? How does wearing a denim skirt influence that child's beliefs and morals that are impressed on them over years of being with parents, grandparents, teachers and peers - these are the influences that will shape them and mould them into the young adults and adults that they will become - not wearing a denim skirt!! Saying that, I certainly do not agree with young girls dressing like 20 year olds and showing their stomachs or wearing short skirts, there is no need for this and it looks disgusting.
Parents who do not let their children be 'normal' run the risk of their children becoming withdrawn, insecure, frustrated and isolated because they are not allowed to be 'normal' because their parents restrict their exposure to everyday normal modern ways of thinking. This is far more destructive to a young child's influential mind than wearing a denim skirt or jumping around to a song about dogs! Get a grip mums and let the children be children and have some fun - dont get too serious!!
I can see both sides of the argument but in the end the question was about Jump Jam and I really do not see any harm in it as long as they are not dissecting the song and teaching them what it is supposed to be about! Enjoy your precious children and love them like there's no tomorrow.
i think the interesting question is: what is normal? to some extent this is an issue parents decide for themselves. for my children, who live in a pretty relaxed, liberal household I think, we don't stock fizzy drink or the normal kinds of junk food often seen in children's lunches, we have no tv on week days, we limit computer time, I would not allow my daughters (age 9 and 11) to wear makeup or dress in some of the current, frankly slutty fashions because i think they are totally inappropriate not only for children but honestly for some of the young women who wear them too; this is normal for us, but for many children low slung jeans, a diet of after-school cartoons and junk food is NORMAL. yet I don't think my kids feel like they are abnormal. i guess they know that lots of kids are not like them, but that was the case anyway because they are gifted children.
it is also interesting to think how "normal" has changed over the years. for the majority of families, a mother working outside the home almost from birth is now the norm. i guess that makes us abnormal since we have been lucky enough to afford for me to stay home with our kids. and our children are also probably abnormal to some extent because their parents are still together!
I'm a former childrens DJ and teacher, and am always aware of the words of songs befre playing them to students. You are right in being concerned about some messgaes, this song however, which is used in most New Zealand schools should not worrie you, I have also looked at the words and have heard interviews with the band concerning the songs message. It is about people danceing and clubbing but the "who let the dogs out" part is infact talking about men at the club that are there to pick up woman. The message of the song is that it is not acceptable to go after woman like a dog after a bone.
the song is used because it is already very popular with children on the radio, and if children do question the message, then it is not as bad as some have suggested and infact is more positive. When approaching schools regarding this sort of thing... pick your battles, because there are alot worse things to be concerned about. You don't want your first confrontation to give you a bad reputation when there will be worse concerns for you to approach later.
I think it is interesting the way this discussion has evolved. Deej, thanks for your side of the story. Tell me, what does a mother do if she dislikes and is disgusted by the "everyday normal modern ways of thinking"? Should she let her child fall into them anyway, because they are, after all, normal for today? Should she get with the flow? Or should she see it as her right and privilege to raise a child to higher values and a more noble character?
I sound like something out of a Bible lesson, I know! And I'm not even religious! But I do strongly believe that parents should be allowed to protect their children from things they find disgusting and dangerous, even if that means being "abnormal" compared to the rest of society.
I fully suspect my protected child will grow up to be well-mannered, well-liked, and dignified. I also am pretty sure she will be a strong character with an excellent sense of herself, because she has learnt all the way along that you do what is right, not what is "normal", and you be true to yourself.
Its just my opinion, though. I think many of us will never have a meeting of minds! :-)
I have relieved in many schools in Auckland and I also have 3 chn.
Jump jam is used in most schools and the children love it. I don't think this one song..who let the dogs out...is a "bad" song.
I am amazed at peoples strong fear they have about jump jam. In my opinion it is a positive in schools because children like the music and it gets all children exercising while having fun.
This has been so interesting I just have to stick my oar in before term really gets under way and I don't have time- my little lotus flower detests sport for poor co-ordination reasons and possibly because she just is that kind of person but she loves jump jam because she loves music and there is no pressure. She wouldn't do dance classes because she didn'tlike being told what to do to the music but apparently JJ was OK. I was and am happy that she enjoys this exercise. We did talk about "who let the dogs out" (when another mother expressed her disapproval to me) about whether it was appropriate and how we would feel if someone spoke about us that way etc etc and I then let it lie (well I like Eminem's music but not his lyrics). I notice that the year six girls set up for jump jam in the morning and that they very seldom choose that song, probably for the same reasons that we parents are not overly keen, some of the older children express their disapproval of certain songs by not really dancing - just shuffling or being silly and I can tell you that no boy wants to dance to "I only kiss, kiss kiss when the sun goes down! eewww! This whole discussion fascinates me like why is it not ok to read Harry Potter but ok to be able to sing along to D12 because you have been watching C4 with your thirteen year old brother?
The biggest thing I noticed about your first post, that it seems other people have not commented on, was your comment about the principle with negative attitudes towards women. IMO, that sort of thing is much more harmful than a song. As distasteful as some music and videos can be, the oversexualization and objectification of women comes primarily from the people in our lives, not the images we see and music we hear. It's pretty worrisome that someone with misogynistic attitudes would be responsible for the education and insititutionalization of children, primarily little girls being "socialized." (And let me add, that someone with misogynistic attitudes doesn't necessarily have to be a man.)
This aweful song about "dogs" was hugely popular here in Canada about 5 or 6 years ago. It was every-where. The local first division under 19 ice hockey team ( a huge business in our community) even went so far as to rename their arena the "Dog Pound." Ouch.
Quietly and gradually the song fell out of favour. First, any-one who chanted the words was regarded as a square. Second, they stopped blasting it at the hockey arena. Last, the 4 m X 30 m banner on the arena faded, ripped, and eventually fell off the building and we now happily go to watch ice hockey at "St. Mike's."
So don't despair, JJ will soon be forgotten and disappear from New Zealand. Hopefully, he will never return.
In the meantime, keep up the good work. With so much great music in the world, I am sure your teachers can be encouraged to play something good for your kid's jumping.
Long ago I heard my 6-year old singing "Money for nothing and chooks for free", when it was a popular song.
So I suppose unless the lyrics are unambigously vile, kids will re-interpret them harmlessly. In a similar vein, pantomimes always have "dodgy" adult jokes aimed at the parents flung over the heads of the kids who are enjoying the show at their own level. It's nothing new.
Just since this has popped up again, I would just like to add that my grandson has been "wrapped in cotton wool" (in terms of exposure to unhealthy attitudes - not in terms of physical activity like riding a pushbike or climbing etc) and man what a difference it makes.
I opened this thread hoping to find an outside provider of Jump Jam since it's massively oversubscribed at school.
Years ago when my daughter wanted to do hip hop I had to search for a class with respectable music and moves - and chose TAPAC, sadly they had such a high turnover of teachers, each worse than the last, that we stopped going.
I nearly had a fit going past a school assembly the other day to hear them singing Boney M's "brown girl in the ring" song. I can't remember the words anymore but I've always associated it with prostitution and at Takapuna Normal in the late '70s the boys used to sit in a circle and get the "brown girls" to dance in the middle for them. I wasn't brown or cute so I was spared the indignity but I feel dirty every time I hear the song!
I know this is way to late to post..............But my kids love JUMP JAM and as a mother of 3 the system that Brett has created is FANTASTIC. I teach JUMP JAM to a group of after school and holiday programme children and they totally love it also. Remember parents/caregivers, JUMP JAM is to promote happy, fun exercising. At the end of the day the kids think they are dancing to a song about dogs. honestly I didnt even know it was about sex...
Brett created JUMP JAM to get NZ kids more active. And i agree that hes doing a great job.
Lucky for Brett he has created 13 or more other DVDs with other songs for our kids to become active.
I LOVE JUMP JAM
When my son used to go to regular school (now homeschooled) he loved the music of Jump Jam BUT was constantly criticised and admonished for 'not trying' hard enough and being silly. Can those who administer this please recognise that some children are dyspraxic and their little bodies do not do what the group is doing!
Far out, I know im way too late, and anybody that wrote things on here will probably never see this, but you all need to calm down and get over yourselves!
Im a 16 year old girl and have been to public schools and private schools. ive had the 'cotton wool' life and the normal kids life. and honestly ive seen so many times, again and again, children going absolutely off the walls as a direct result of a cotton wooled lifestyle.
seriously, some of the things children do these days would probably make some of you totally outraged lol. Do you honestly think that 9/10 year olds run around playing dolls or superman at lunch? I guarantee all of your children will know every 'bad word' under the sun, every 'sexual term',and everything they see on TV will be thoroughly discussed with peers at school before class the next day. I catch a bus and even being 16 i am often surprised at what the year 4-5-6-7-8's are talking about.
Are you aware that now days we have 13 year olds pregnant everyday? Children moving out of home at 15? And marriage between Romeo & Juliet lovers at 15?
I did Jump Jam and all we did was laugh, smile, bounce around to music, and pretend to be dogs. Theres so swearing in it as far as i know, and the jump jam music/dance moves have been around since the mid 1990s.
I suppose you all think your children are doing homework when they are locked in their room?
I suppose you think they attend all their classes?
And spend their pocket money on action figures and pokemon cards.
I don't mean to be so rude, but i just thought someone might need a kid's view.
I, Myself have never done drugs etc (personal reasons) but i know for a fact that not just my friends but most people i know at my school, and previous schools, do in fact smoke weed, take party pills, drink, have sex etc at age 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 etc.
Sorry but the only way you will be able to control your child (if they need controlling) is to let go a bit. Its like a paradox. To control, you must surrender.
I am a 17 year old doing an critical essay on 'cotton wool kids' so ive done a fair bit of research on the topic. but i also was a kid that did jump jam every morning at primary and intermedit to this song and songs like it. and believe me, to a childs ear all the 'ideas' and 'messages' behind it are completly lost. its a really up beat song, good to jump around to and have a part in it where u bark like a dog. please do not think a 5-10 year old is going to hear dogs in a song and pay any attention to its under lying meaning. kids love jump jam and that song is a classic ive sung and danced to it hundreds of times and reading ur post is the first time ive heard someone try to say the song has an under lying idea of women are dogs. i bet if u asked ur child right now what do u think they mean by dogs? he wont go on about how its means women should be treated like dogs or what ever ur point was.
If u cancel jump jam kids are going to loose out of exercise, which is one thing kids these days can defiantly not afford to loose out on. Plus you be adding to the politicaly correct maddness and cotton wooling insanity this country already has a massive problem with.
I personally think you are overacting heaps to this one song. The kid is having fun singing and dancing and he is oblivious to what he sings. If you go around making a big deal out of it, it will only encourage him later on in life to listen to that kind of music. Let him have his fun singing this song, there are much worse songs than this song around. You can't protect your children forever and so what if they hear the occasional sexual reference they are going to hear it one way or another you can't keep them sheltered forever one day they are going to wake up and see the real world and everything in it.