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 Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Mama Mia 
Date:   15-04-07 20:08

Hi, does anyone know how to relate percentile scores achieved in the WJ III test and level of giftedness?

So for each of the MG/HG/EG/PG levels of giftedness, what GIA (General Intellectual Ability) score would a child obtain?

Thanks

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Jean 
Date:   15-04-07 20:41

Different experts say different things, unfortunately. There is no one "right" answer. It also depends on which test is used. Hoagies has a good page about interpreting test results:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.com/highly_profoundly.htm

I've snipped some info from another page here:

"Comparing old and new test scores
It is often asked, how does my younger child's new WISC-IV score compare to my older child's WISC-III score? How does my son's SB-5 score compare to his potential SB L-M score? How does my daughter's WISC-IV score compare to her potential SB-5 or WJ-III cognitive score (or vice versa)? The short answer to any of these questions is... it doesn't. Scores from new and old (or older!) versions of the same test can be compared in general, but each version changes what it measures, at least slightly, and sometimes significantly. The Stanford-Binet version L-M is still being used for supplemental information on very highly gifted children, because of its possible scores above the newer tests' ceiling of 160. And while there may be value to knowing those scores, they cannot be compared to IQ scores calculated on newer test versions, because deviation table scores are calculated differently on modern tests. Between WISC-III and WISC-IV versions, changes were made to give more weight to short term memory and processing speed. Between the SB-4 and SB-5 versions, similar changes were made. And while both WISC-IV and SB-5 versions are closer to the WJ-III cognitive test's definition of intelligence than their predecessors were, they are still not designed using identical definitions, making comparisons between them difficult.

Is your mind full of alphabet soup yet?

Comparing scores from different tests
Equally often, it is asked How do WISC-III scores compare to SB-4 scores (both the last version), or How do WISC-IV scores compare to SB-5 scores (both the current versions)? The answer is, it is hard to say.

Comparing the same versions of individual IQ tests, such as the WISC-IV to the SB-5, should be straightforward. But each test has its own strengths. Psychologists suggest that matching the test to the subject's strengths results in the most accurate IQ score. The current version of the Wechsler, the WISC-IV, is a strong test for verbally gifted children, with emphasis on knowledge gained from reading. This version of the WISC, however, is also heavily timed. Short term memory and processing speed scales often lower the full scale IQ score for gifted children. Psychologists should be familiar with the alternate scoring, called the Global Intelligence Index (GAI), in cases where the difference between the verbal scale and short term memory or processing speed scales exceed limits. The current version of the Stanford Binet, the SB-5, is stronger for non-verbal intelligence, and less heavily timed. Note that for the previous versions of these tests, the WISC-III and SB-4, the common wisdom was exactly the opposite: use the WISC-III for non-verbal kids, and the SB-4 for verbal / intelligence gifted kids.

Previous versions of individual IQ tests, including the WISC-III, WPPSI-R, SB-4 and WJ-R, tend to score higher than the current versions, the WISC-IV, WPPSI-III, SB-5 and WJ-III. All of these tests were designed to score about 3 points lower for each 10 years since their last norming, due to the Flynn Effect, a theory on the increase of intelligence in any population over time. The design, however, may fall apart at the higher scoring levels of gifted children. The only studies comparing old to new scores are those that the publishers completed and published with the release of their new test versions. In the WISC-III to WISC-IV study, for example, previously gifted kids (WISC-III full scale 130+) scored only full scale 123.5 on the WISC-IV. Their working memory (average 112.5) and processing speed (average 110.6) scores lowered their full scale scores...

What IQ tests DON'T tell us...
Some psychologists and counselors believe that a particular pattern of individual IQ subtest scores suggest a certain type of learning disability or weakness. You might hear that a wide variation between verbal and performance scales on an IQ test (depending who you talk to, 2 or 3 standard deviations or 30 or 45+ standard scale points) for example, indicates a learning disability. While this is a widespread assumption, research does not support this theory. Read IQ Subtest Analysis: Clinical Acumen or Clinical Illusion? for a research-based explanation of why subtest analysis is NOT good science at this time.

That said, in the hands of a twice exceptional experienced tester, subtest scores combined with personal observations may point to areas where further evaluation might be needed to confirm or deny learning disabilities in a gifted child. The WJ-III cognitive, with its large variety of subtests, is said to provide the most information in the potential identification of twice exceptional (gifted and learning disabled) children."

Here's the link for the full page:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.com/tests_tell_us.htm

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Chris Herbert 
Date:   23-04-07 09:56

The Woodcock Johnson III Cognitve Battery as used in ODS testing (as a part of the assessment process for entry)offers the following classification:

Very Superior
Percentile Rank of 98 to 99.9% or Standard Score of 131 and above

Superior
Percentile Rank of 92 to 97% or Standard Score of 121 to 130

High Average
Percentile Rank of 76 to 91% or Standard Score of 111 to 120

Average
Percentile Rank of 25 to 75% or standard Score of 90 to 110

There are also three ranges below this of low average, low and very low.

I hope that is of help
Chris (Assessor for ODS)

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Sue 
Date:   23-04-07 12:02

Thanks, Chris. Good to see it put so succinctly.

Sue

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Mama Mia 
Date:   12-05-07 12:53

Chris, thanks for the information, the scores and percentile rankings explain it well.

So in the "Very Superior" range, is the WJ test not sensitive enough to split out into MG, HG, EG and PG?

Or can you say that MG is 97.9th%ile, HG is 99.9th%ile, etc?

Thanks.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Chris Herbert 
Date:   18-05-07 10:21

Hello again,
I don't think it's a matter of the WJ Test not being sensitive enough to place scores into MG, HG etc. More that the test developer chooses not to use those distinctions. It is a standardised test battery so you can be assured if your child scores on or above 95th percentile, they are gifted. On the test data printed and sent to parents there is the Standard Score for overall (GIA) score, each culster score and subtest scores, so I suppose you could deduce to some extent the extent of gftedness (with respect to the terms you are seeking to use) from this although, there is variation in what scores are considered for example to be PG etc across different Test Developers and Theorists.
Hope that clarifies an doesnt muddle matters further.
Take care
Chris

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Mama Mia 
Date:   20-05-07 14:11

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Tiz Me 
Date:   21-05-07 00:50

Are you wanting to know for your own child specifically? To give you a better understanding of your childs needs and where he "fits"?

If so, score "patterning" needs to be taken into account.

A gifted individual, for many reasons, may not even show up as "gifted" on a full scale score much less be accurately identified as being MG/HG/PG.

Once it has been established that a child/person IS gifted, I tend to lean towards "non-academic" observations as a better guide of "how gifted" they probably are and respond accordingly.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Linda 
Date:   10-05-08 00:59

My son's processing speed is very high but not the IQ its between 127 and 130 depending on the test with an IQ of 136 in reading and logic.

Is his processing speed keeping down his total IQ score. He also had a IQ score of 120 in math.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Another Linda 
Date:   14-05-08 11:54

Hi Mama Mia

I asked this very same question a few years ago, and still feel a bit frustrated that we're left feeling like we're missing a piece of the puzzle.

I am assuming that the first thing most of us do when we are told we have gifted children, after we get over the shock of course, is research. Here we learn it's not just a matter of being gifted, but how gifted, moderately, highly, exceptionally or profoundly, and here we have an assessment which we cannot relate to any of these terms.

Would Sue or Chris be prepared to comment on the following:

Sue wrote on a previous post that the following 'score ranges refer to the WJIII & WISC IV from memory'. Based on applying the WJIII results to this range of scores where a GIA score on the WJIII of 99.6th percentile is 139 it would mean no child could ever score as being more than highly gifted even if they scored in the 99.9th percentile. The WJIII GIA scores don't correlate well enough with the IQ range scores on this list to be comparable.

The following comes from the Victorian Education Dept in Australia:

IQ range: 130144
Qualitative description: Moderately gifted
Incidence in the population: 1 child in 40 children to 1:1,000

IQ range: 145159
Qualitative description: Highly gifted
Incidence in the population: 1:1,000 to 1: 10,000

IQ range: 160179
Qualitative description: Exceptionally gifted
Incidence in the population: 1:10,000 to 1: 1 million

IQ range: 180+
Qualitative description: Profoundly gifted
Incidence in the population: Less than 1: 1 million

Chris you wrote: 'On the test data printed and sent to parents there is the Standard Score for overall (GIA) score, each cluster score and subtest scores, so I suppose you could deduce to some extent the extent of gftedness (with respect to the terms you are seeking to use).'

Based on this, & sqeezing the 4 moderately, highly, exceptionally & profoundly gifted ranges from above into the 2 WJIII gifted ranges of superior & very superior, using the 95th percentile as a starting point for mildly gifted, could the WJIII results then be interpreted as follows, and if not why not, as it is just as likely that there will be some exceptionally and profoundly gifted children being tested by the WJIII as other tests?

Very Superior
Percentile Rank of 98 to 99.9% or Standard Score of 131 and above
(Equal to IQ Range from Exceptionally Gifted to Profoundly Gifted)?

Superior
Percentile Rank of 92 to 97% or Standard Score of 121 to 130
(Equal to IQ Range from Moderately Gifted to Highly Gifted)?

Or maybe the Superior range would cover just moderately gifted, with the highly, exceptionally & profoundly included in the Very Superior?

Your comments would be most appreciated.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Chris 
Date:   20-05-08 10:59

The Woodcock Johnson III Cognitve Battery as used in ODS testing (as a part of the assessment process for entry)offers the following classification:

Very Superior
Percentile Rank of 98 to 99.9% or Standard Score of 131 and above

Superior
Percentile Rank of 92 to 97% or Standard Score of 121 to 130

High Average
Percentile Rank of 76 to 91% or Standard Score of 111 to 120

Average
Percentile Rank of 25 to 75% or standard Score of 90 to 110

There are also three ranges below this of low average, low and very low.

I hope that is of help
Chris (Assessor for ODS)

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Mama Mia 
Date:   23-05-08 16:39

If a child falls into the Very Superior range on the WJ III, what test is then recommended to better determine the level of giftedness at that top end? Thanks.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Sue 
Date:   23-05-08 23:21

I think the Stanford-Binet 5 has a ceiling of 170 IQ, and possibly the WISC IV. If Lynn or Barbara are reading the forum, perhaps one of them might like to comment. I think this is one that actually needs a psychologist who is working with the tests to comment.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Another Linda 
Date:   25-05-08 18:02

I am not a psychologist working with the tests but I would like to respond to Mama Mia's question based on the fact that I have 2 children who tested in the Very Superior range on the WJ III that were tested 3 years later using the WISC IV. At 9.5 years the lower ceiling of the WISC IV meant that they both had scores above the ceiling of the test, so hard to tell where they are really at! Also another factor to consider is the 'timed' performance items in the test where visual-spacial learners may need more processing time than the tests allow, and that a child has to be good at most of the subtests in order to obtain a high IQ score. Given this, my personal opinion if I were to have my children tested again would be to go the Stanford-Binet way.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Mama Mia 
Date:   04-06-08 11:26

Thanks for the recommendation Another Linda.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Suzanne 
Date:   10-06-08 09:20

We just received results of our son's testing. The SB5 FSIQ was much lower than either I or our pediatrician expected (and I don't mean that arrogantly), especially considering his WJ III scores were 20-35 "points" higher. He scored "high average" on IQ, but "very superior" on aptitude. All WJ scores were >99.9 percentile. Basically, I understand that he is performing above his "IQ", but I don't understand why/how there is such a difference or which is a more accurate measure of his "intelligence".

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Freedomnow 
Date:   10-06-08 10:05

Hi Suzanne
Is your son a VS child? In our circumstances, our son tested high on SB5 (in the 99th percentile) but only scored (in the 97th percentile overall) with WJIII. I understood that the SB5 was good for VS children and WJIII was not favourable with VS children. Therefore your son may not be a VS child therefore the WJIII was a good test for him. Whats more accurate I don't know? I definitely know our son and watched the SB5 being administered and saw him cope very well and loved the visual aspect of the testing. I know he struggled with the WJIII one and did not enjoy that test at all! So in our case I believe the SB5 results as I know what he is capable of and the way he needs to learn. However, in your case, it looks like your son is more suited to the WJIII test and I would go with that if I was you. At the end of the day, you know what your son is like, and how he learns, and what he is capable of, so it doesn't really matter! Good luck! Enjoy - your son sounds a very bright and capable boy.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Porter 
Date:   25-06-08 11:03

Hi,

Could someone please tell me the best test to have my daughter take? She scored in the Superior range for all subtests except processing speed. She scored below average in the processing speed portion. She is in kindergarten and is far behind others in her class. However, because she scored in the superior range on the new WISC overall she did not qualify for any special services. I am afraid she probably has a learning disability that has not yet been diagnosed. I know she is very bright but if she can't get her bright thoughts on paper then what good is it?

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Mom of 2 
Date:   21-08-08 16:19

Does anyone know what the waiting period is to retake the WJ III Cognitive Abilities Test?

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Sarah 
Date:   21-09-08 09:50

Please, whatever you decide to do in the long run about testing, have your child assessed by a behavioural optometrist. I have a son who is highly gifted and tested at age 5 in the 99.5th percentile on the WPPSI III. During the process of testing we found that he showed very little confidence with fine motor coordination, particularly when writing. The educational psychologist picked up on this and told us to have his eyesight checked. He had (still mildly has) a bilateral integration problem. He ended up having eyelight therapy for 6 weeks. He was extremely right hand, right side of the body dominant. These children tend to have difficulty doing up shoelaces, tying ties and writing evenly on lines. He is a very high achiever and picks things up very quickly but the eyelight therapy really helped him to gain confidence and give things a go. He was scared to show people that his writing was not up to par with his intellectual ability, now he takes the risk of exposing his weaknesses and gets pleasing results. I have a much happier child now, who is finding that he can be comfortable in his own skin. Being gifted is hard enough, find out if there is more going on there!

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Jan K 
Date:   21-09-08 20:21

Hi Sarah,
out of curiosity, what is eyelight therapy please?
Jan

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Merran Brear 
Date:   11-12-08 13:43

I am an assessor using the WJII. I assess for all types of Learning Disabilities.

My waiting list is currently mid to end of February.

Can I help?

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Denise 
Date:   13-12-08 08:36

Hi, We are lucky enough to have the option to have the Woodcock Johnson test done or the WISC... which would you recommend?

The WJ is considerably cheaper but I was wondering if the WISC was more thorough (the assessor made it sound better) and I am wondering if it is worth the extra $$. There seems to be some difference in the results it produces - some say the WJ gives higher levels. Others have said the WJ only gives and IQ level whereas the WISC gives more all-over evaluation.

The question we are asking ourselves is "what do we want the test for".
1 is to get an overview of where our son 'sits' - he is having trouble at school because he is just not challenged and bored, so we want to see what his level is so we can give him education to suit
2 to get into ODS
3 to prepare for future education years and provide the best for him

If anyone can help on which would be best for our needs we would appreciate it greatly.

Thanks
Denise

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Sue 
Date:   13-12-08 13:06

HI, Denise.

If you can afford it, go for the WISC full-scale assessment - it will tell you much more about your son and his needs than the WJIII administered at ODS. WJIII can be used as full-scale assessment if all the test batteries are administered, but ODS only uses the cognitive abilities tests as they are testing for entry to ODS.

I have had kids assessed using both - the WISC report was much more valuable.

Cheers
Sue

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Denise 
Date:   13-12-08 19:35

Hi Sue,

I have spoken to a few people today and we think we will do both.

It is good to have my thoughts confirmed, that the wisc would be the best. Interesting that you have done both and prefer the wisc. I think if we decide to do just one it will be the wisc (on your say so :-) )

Thanks heaps.
Denise

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: d.Kershaw 
Date:   14-12-08 12:05

Dear Denise ,

I was wondering where can you get this test done.
Please let me know.

Thank you ,
D.Kershaw.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Rebecca 
Date:   14-12-08 15:38

d.Kershaw - which area are you in? There are a number of Psychologists around NZ who are particularly experienced in assessment for giftedness etc.

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Virginia 
Date:   30-12-08 11:41

Aren't we splitting hairs here? None of the tests are really accurate and from what I've been able to assess, all are different. Whether your child is highly gifted or profoundly gifted seems more a matter of ego than anything else. I found the below article to be helpful.

http://www.tokyogiftedacademy.com/admissions_overview_assessing.htm?TOKYO=e4bf0c9749530b91969fd1578027dfeb

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: Sue 
Date:   30-12-08 17:41

Hi, Virginia.

While the desire to differentiate between highly and profoundly gifted may well be a matter of ego for some parents, there are sound reasons for accurately identifying level of giftedness. The more gifted a child is, the greater their needs will vary from the 'norm' and the greater the degree of differentiation within the classroom which will be required. Also, research has shown that the social and emotional impacts of being gifted are much more keenly felt by profoundly and exceptionally gifted children than children who score in the lower levels of giftedness. This has implications for both parenting and teaching. Professor Miraca Gross' study into exceptionally gifted children is very illuminating in this area!

Have a happy new year.
Sue

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 Re: Woodcock Johnson III Cog & IQ/level of giftedness
Author: mumof three 
Date:   28-01-09 12:32

Hi there
I had my son tested recently via SPELD , he scored 98%ile in verbal and thinking ability but only average in cognitive efficiency, which I think lowers the overall IQ score they give. They don't seem to use the term "gifted" at all but refer to him as "Cognitive abilities in the very superior range". Is this just a difference of terminology or what? As later on we may want to consider him for one day school.
SPELD consider him to have a specific learning disability,SLD, also some mention of a few aspects of dyspraxia being present due to the discrepancy between his overall intelligence and his processing speed, a bit uncoordinated etc. But he doesn't seem to fit the typical dyspraxia mould as he wasn't late in any milestones at all, plus he has good fine motor skills and is okay at physical stuff, just not great. I am not sure if his scores on the cognitive efficiency are affected by the fact he has got visual issues eg very poor eye tracking, eye teaming problems plus exophoria (eyes don't look straight basically). Do you think visual issues could affect this cognitive efficiency measure? as it is stated as pretty much a neurological thing that can't be changed.I notice some of it was visual matching type stuff.
I am doing eye exercises with him on recommendation of a behavioural optometrist. I think its helping a bit already in his reading fluency etc.

Also, am finding it hard dealing with the school. His achievement thus far has been about average for his age, certainly not in line with his measured ability. But he has been finding things hard, comes home and explodes etc and can't follow his interests that well as he can't read to a very high level, gets bored, drives us all crazy. SPELD thought with his abilities he should have a reading age about 10 years (he's 6y8m) but school teacher disagrees. She seems to think there isn't a problem as his reading age is about in line with his chronological age, even if he's really bright. Doesn't believe that he should have an advanced reading level. Thinks I am stressing him out with all the testing and that he will come right with time as he isn't yet 7. Also she thinks having SPELD tuition is unnecessary at this age. SPELD on the other hand seem to think its important to help his phonics and handwriting etc before it becomes more of an issue. He seems to struggle with writing ideas down, although he has it all in his head. So now I am really confused!! What have others found helpful in this situation?

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 V. Bright but not writing/reading
Author: Linda 
Date:   28-01-09 14:03

Hi mum of 3,
I am not in your situation as I have a 4 yo, but he has age level fine motor skills and 10 yo reading level. We have been encouraged to allow him to record his ideas on to tape, dictate to us, use computer etc to get over the 'not able to write it down' problem.
My idea for your son would be to help him follow his interests with video/DVD, books on tape, visits to places related to his interests (undersea adventures, space travel? lol), etc. Also people to talk to about his interests, perhaps a babysitter willing to help him research on internet or read to him, older relatives, mentors, etc.
What's he keen on? I'm a bit of an ideas generator (not a 'do'er, just the ideas).

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 Re: V. Bright but not writing/reading
Author: Karen 
Date:   01-02-09 16:49

Hi Mum of 3,
My son (now 28) was tested with the WISC at aged seven and found to have an IQ of 133 (as they then called it), which is in the MENSA range, but was also SLD and is in fact a typical dyslexic with a touch of dyspraxia (now that I know enough to identify the dyspraxia myself). He was reading at his age level at 7 so his teacher said he didn't need help with reading - but he should really have been reading three years ahead to match his IQ. Consequently I didn't get him any extra help (apart from learning from my own SPELD tools) and he managed through his primary years. It wasn't until he hit High School that he couldn't keep up and ended up sitting School Cert English twice - and failing twice. He managed to see out the Sixth form - only because he was doing a STAR course in horticulture one day a week, which he loved.

Looking back, the dyspraxia has been evident most of the way through in small ways - tried soccer, rugby, cricket, athletics etc for a year each but never wanted to carry on with anything physical. He did orienteering with the family but didn't enjoy the physical side of that either. He was always a bit uncoordinated and had great rows with his phys ed teachers! He had inners in his shoes after going to a podiatrist, which helped him a lot (he told me recently that he should get some new ones).

As a SPELD teacher myself with 20 years experience, I would advise you to get your son some help now before he gets into bad habits and becomes too despondent and turned off learning. His SPELD teacher will work on his weaknesses while using his strengths - and will teach him phonological awareness strategies - the most important aspect of SLD/dyslexia. Research with fMRI scans has shown that dyslexics use a different part of the brain for langauge (their right side - which is why they are so creative as well). They do not have the automaticity for words that come naturally to most of us - this affects their processing speed for anything written.

Check out the SPELD website www.speld.org.nz for details on the conference being held in New Plymouth in June 19-21 2009. I say go for it with SPELD because the WJ III is not wrong and even though your son is obviously very gifted, he will need help to get through the school system (and life!). I work with gifted teenagers now - some of whom are dyslexic and they are amazing kids. They (more than anyone) need to know how they learn differently so that they can reach their potential.

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 Re: V. Bright but not writing/reading
Author: Chris Herbert 
Date:   03-02-09 09:23

Hi
Reading your email on the forum I really felt for you. Your son who has been assessed by SPELD clearly has areas of giftedness (Verbal and Thinking) as well as areas of specific dicciulty as outlined by you. When a child is tested and has this pattern of significant strengths and weaknesses, the overall score tends to be a blurry reflection of the two extremes mixed together in a large melting pot. Hence the overall score tends to disguise giftedness and also disguise the extent of learning difficulty. Having assessed some 1500+ individual students now for the Gifted Education Centre (formerly George Parkyn Centre); this is nothing new to me. It is important that your son's strengths and weaknesses are catered for now they have been identified. As head of the assessment team I would urge you (if you yourself are keen) to phone the centre for an Application Pack for the gifted One Day School programme. When you send it back write boldy 'Attn Chris' on the front page and the application will come directly to me. Please also include a copy of the SPELD report. The programme we offer is able to cater for the areas of giftedness your son has shown through SPELD testing and also being mindful of his mixed abilities. I look forward to hearing from you and if you would like to speak with me personally please feel free on 09-8454176.

Take care
Chris Herbert

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